Gazeta.Ru interview with Valery Tutykhin (John Tiner & Partners / co-manager, Black Eagle Litigation Fund) on the risks which Russia faces due to losing arbitration to Yukos shareholders. By Roustem Faliakhov
Gazeta.ru article (translated). Russia Might Wish To Protect Its Finances Due To Yukos Case eng - valery tutykhin
1. 1
translated
from
the
original
article
published
in
Russian
by
Gazeta.ru
(http://www.gazeta.ru/business/2015/07/17/7644217.shtml)
Russia Might Wish to Protect its Finances
Due to Yukos Case
Russia
needs
to
take
action
to
avoid
arrest
of
payment
flows
on
its
debt
securities
Rustem
Faliakhov,
20
July
2015,
10:11
Payments
under
Russian
state
bonds
may
be
at
risk
if
Yukos
shareholders
win
litigation
in
the
USA
and
United
Kingdom.
The
government
needs
to
take
action
to
avoid
repeating
Argentina’s
destiny.
Gazeta.ru
asked
Valery
Tutykhin,
partner
at
John
Tiner
&
Partners
(Geneva,
Switzerland)
to
assess
the
prospects
of
compensation
claims
against
Russia
under
ex-‐Yukos
shareholders’
legal
action.
Valery Tutykhin, partner at John Tiner & Partners (Geneva) is
one of the managers in Black Eagle Litigation Fund, a distressed
assets and litigation financing business. Its focus is on asset
tracing and recovery and investment into corporate conflict
situations.
–
What
are
the
chances
of
compensation
being
received
from
Russia
under
ex-‐Yukos
shareholders’
legal
action?
–
I
believe
Russia’s
legal
team
and
whoever
was
making
legal
decisions
for
Russia
in
Yukos
proceedings
under
the
Energy
Charter
made
a
big
mistake
by
allowing
themselves
to
be
pulled
into
this
international
arbitration.
And
not
just
being
pulled
in,
but
actively
taking
part
in
it,
even
appointing
an
arbitrator
from
their
side.
–
But
Russian
officials
may
have
been
acting
under
the
assumption
that
Russia
signed
but
not
ratified
the
Energy
Charter,
which
is
used
by
Yukos
shareholders
to
claim
compensation.
So
there
was
still
a
chance
to
prove
there
is
no
basis
for
compensation?
Russia
does
not
have
to
recognize
the
Energy
Charter,
does
it?
–
Not
exactly.
If
you
are
actively
taking
part
in
an
arbitration,
you
effectively
recognize
this
arbitration.
That’s
the
problem.
You
accept
that
it
exists
for
you
as
a
competent
authority
for
settling
the
dispute.
2. 2
–
So
it
looks
like
Russia
made
it
much
simpler
for
its
opponents
to
claim
compensation.
But
isn’t
the
Energy
Charter
arbitration
a
higher
international
instance
in
any
case
–
is
it
above
national
courts?
Do
all
its
rulings
have
to
be
enforced
automatically?
–
It
is
not
above
national
courts.
It’s
a
kind
of
contractual
institution.
For
example,
I
lend
you
money
and
we
agree
that
if
you
don’t
repay
in
time,
I
will
not
go
to
the
state
court,
because
I
don’t
want
to
show
publicly
that
I
have
that
much
money.
And
you
don’t
want
to
show
that
you
have
a
dispute
with
me.
So
we
agree
to
go
to
a
private
court.
And
that
private
court
will
decide
on
our
dispute.
There
is
no
institution
above
Russia
here.
Russia
is
sovereign,
just
like
the
US,
Britain,
or
any
other
country.
There
are
no
courts
above
any
state.
The
states
create
contractual
institutions
among
themselves.
And
the
states
will
follow
their
awards
as
long
as
they
want
to
and
as
far
as
they
consider
those
awards
right
or
practical
to
enforce.
That’s
what
international
law
in
practice
is
based
on.
Nobody
is
above
the
states.
So
in
this
situation
Russia,
as
a
state,
in
its
free
will
had
expressed
its
consent.
And
I
think
it
was
a
great
mistake
of
those
who
formulated
the
legal
position
on
the
Russian
side.
–
Then
can
you
explain
how
arbitration
rulings,
like
the
one
made
for
Yukos,
are
enforced?
–
There
is
a
New
York
Convention
of
1958,
Convention
on
the
Recognition
and
Enforcement
of
Foreign
Arbitral
Awards.
Russia
is
party
to
that
Convention,
and
so
are
more
than
150
other
countries.
According
to
the
Convention,
properly
issued
arbitration
awards
are
mandatory
for
implementation
–
i.e.
enforcement
–
in
all
states
that
are
parties
to
this
New
York
Convention.
Provided
that…
and
then
there
are
several
conditions.
The
first
condition
is
that
the
party
must
be
duly
notified
about
the
case.
The
second
is
that
the
implementation
of
the
ruling
must
not
contravene
the
public
order
in
the
country
where
you
are
seeking
the
enforcement
of
the
award.
And
so
on.
But
what
happened
in
the
Yukos
case?
The
issue
of
Energy
Charter’s
applicability
to
the
Russian
Federation
is
arguable.
And
Russia’s
winning
or
losing
this
arbitration
doesn’t
make
it
any
less
arguable.
Because
Russia
did
sign
this
Charter
but
did
not
ratify
it.
And
this
ambiguous
status
would
have
ideally
enabled
Russia
to
ignore
the
procedure
completely.
If
Russia
refused
to
get
into
the
arbitration
and
lost,
Yukos
people
would
be
facing
a
giant
issue
of
trying
to
enforce
the
arbitral
award
in
each
individual
country.
In
each
country
they
would
have
to
prove
a
most
complex
doctrinal
issue
of
Russia
being
actually
bound
by
the
dispute
resolution
provisions
of
the
Energy
Charter.
This
would
have
been
a
real
nightmare,
trust
me.
Suppose
the
plaintiffs
would
file
for
recognition
in
a
US
court.
Suppose
they
find
a
building
in
the
US
owned
by
some
Russian
state
enterprise,
some
foreign
state
property,
and
decide
to
arrest
it.
In
that
case
Russia
would
say:
sorry,
we
never
recognized
that
arbitration,
so
you
can’t
enforce
its
award
against
us.
What
would
Yukos
do
then?
They
would
have
to
go
to
a
court
of
general
jurisdiction
somewhere
in
Texas
or
California
–
wherever
that
property
would
be,
and
try
to
prove
that
the
3. 3
Energy
Charter’s
dispute
provisions
are
actually
binding
on
Russia.
And
a
court
of
general
jurisdiction
is
much
less
competent
in
these
issues,
by
the
way,
than
the
specialized
arbitration,
which
is
specifically
geared
to
deal
with
this
kind
of
questions.
And
that
would
be
a
case
lasting
years.
Another
point.
If
Russia
refused
to
join
that
arbitration
and
lost,
it
could
then
try
to
dismiss
the
Yukos
award
in
a
US
court
as
politically
motivated,
however
remote
that
argument
could
be.
In
other
words,
Russia
could
argue
that
enforcing
this
award
in
the
US
would
contravene
public
order.
Again,
that
could
make
the
lawsuit
last
forever.
But
that
is
theory,
and
in
practice
–
I
repeat
–
Yukos
claimants
received
a
privilege
to
address
one
signle
forum
on
the
issue
of
the
Energy
Charter’s
applicability
to
Russia
and
have
that
issue
resolved
once
and
for
all.
–
How
will
the
compensation
claim
process
go
now,
in
your
opinion?
–
I
would
predict
that
now
courts
in
the
US,
Europe,
wherever
the
claimants
will
apply,
would
probably
order
to
enforce
the
arbitration
ruling
against
Russia.
But
that’s
not
the
problem.
The
problem
is
what
property
they
can
actually
seize
to
meet
their
financial
claim.
–
If
they
can
still
find
property
they
can
claim
against…
–
Theoretically,
the
claimants
can
find
such
property.
The
practice
of
enforcing
claims
against
state
property
is
changing
now.
Do
you
remember
that
old
man
Nassim
Gaon,
who
was
running
all
over
the
world
trying
to
claim
$640
million
from
Russia?
How
much
time
did
he
spend
on
that?
I
think
some
15
years.
Any
results?
–
Franz
Sedelmayer
was
also
trying
to
claim
compensation…
–
He
did
actually
get
something,
something
minor.
Gaon
got
next
to
nothing.
But
things
are
changing.
There’s
a
fund
I’m
related
to,
that
works
a
lot
on
government
debt,
we
closely
monitor
the
practice.
And
I
would
say
the
era
when
nothing
could
be
done
to
collect
from
a
sovereign
state,
despite
having
a
judgement,
is
now
ending.
–
How
come?
–
It’s
ending
due
to
a
series
of
precedents
that
were
set
in
America
in
2012-‐2014.
These
precedents
matter
not
just
for
the
US
jurisdiction.
Do
you
know
the
story
of
Argentina
sovereign
debt
litigation?
–
Some
investors
there
did
not
agree
to
write
off
their
part
of
the
debt
and
wanted
to
be
paid
in
full,
without
a
discount.
–
Right,
and
by
that
time
Argentina
did
not
have
any
property
abroad
that
could
easily
be
arrested.
There
was
a
bizarre
case
of
an
Argentinian
warship
arrested
in
Ghanian
waters
in
2012.
The
claimants
were
also
trying
to
arrest
dinosaur
bones
Argentina
sent
to
some
exhibition
in
Europe.
But
this
is
all
not
serious.
4. 4
Problem
with
government-‐owned
assets
is
that
they
are
mainly
located
within
its
country.
Outside,
if
there
are
any
funds
in
any
accounts,
for
example
–
these
are
reserves
of
the
Central
Bank
of
that
country.
But
Central
Banks
are
usually
considered
separated
from
the
state.
Besides,
the
correspondent
accounts
in
Central
Banks
hold
funds
deposited
by
the
clients
of
commercial
banks
which
keep
their
money
in
the
Central
Bank.
It
means
that
to
a
certain
extent,
these
are
people’s
funds.
So
they
cannot
be
attached
in
a
claim
against
the
government.
–
How
is
it
possible
then
to
protect
the
interests
of
those
who
can’t
get
their
money
from
sovereign
states?
–
Creative
lawyers
are
constantly
thinking
of
new
ways
to
address
the
issue,
they
sue
and
they
set
precedents.
When
Argentina
became
so
maliciously
incooperative
on
its
debts,
despite
the
court
rulings,
the
courts
started
inventing
new
ways
to
protect
the
interests
of
those
it
wouldn’t
pay
to.
Some
very
creative
people
from
NML
Capital,
a
fund
suing
Argentina,
created
a
precedent.
The
court
could
not
arrest
Argentina’s
property,
as
there
was
none
outside
Argentina
by
that
time.
But
the
court
could
order
injunctive
relief.
Thus
the
court
prohibited
all
third
parties
in
the
financial
sector:
banks,
investment
companies,
brokers,
even
financial
consultants
–
to
receive
and
process
payments
related
to
Argentina’s
government
debt.
This
ban
is
not
supposed
to
be
lifted
until
Argentina
starts
making
payments
to
the
claimants
–
bondholders
who
did
not
agree
to
restructure
and
write
off
their
debts.
In
other
words,
the
US
court
made
a
ruling
on
a
claim
against
Argentina,
but
the
ruling
is
not
exactly
against
Argentina,
it
is
addressed
to
third
parties.
–
As
a
result,
Argentina
was
cut
off
from
the
capital
markets
…
–
Right,
and
then
it
quickly
slipped
into
a
technical
default.
President
Kirchner
was
screaming
in
the
UN
that
this
is
financial
terrorism
by
the
US.
The
dispute
still
goes
on.
But
actually,
the
American
court
didn’t
do
anything
illegal.
I
mean
it
didn’t
do
anything
that
could
not
fit
in
the
legal
framework.
It’s
just
that
the
NML
lawyers
saw
this
as
an
opportunity
in
2012.
And
they
litigated
a
precedent.
–
Now,
how
does
that
relate
to
Yukos
story?
–
My
fund
is
not
dealing
with
Russia’s
debts,
so
I
can
say
without
a
conflict
of
interest.
Russia
must
take
urgent
measures
to
minimize
any
possible
consequences
of
a
similar
action.
The
government
should
protect
its
international
financial
flows.
I
would
pay
special
attention
to
Russia’s
debt
securities,
for
which
the
paying
agents
are
financial
institutions
located
in
the
US
and
UK.
This
includes
well-‐known
Western
global
banks
represented
in
Russia.
Look
at
the
last
page
of
each
prospectus
for
Russian
government
bonds,
it
lists
them
all.
–
So,
Yukos
claimants
can
freeze
payments
of
coupons
and
principal
that
are
distributed
by
Western
intermediary
banks
on
Russia’s
behalf,
and
order
those
funds
to
be
transferred
to
the
ex-‐
Yukos
shareholders’
accounts
instead?
5. 5
–
Yes,
that’
a
risk.
–
Where
else
can
the
claimants
seize
government
money?
–
There
is
a
multitude
of
such
nodes
within
the
global
financial
system.
I
don’t
want
to
give
hints.
Just
the
most
obvious
point
–
government
securities.
In
the
scenario
I
outlined
it
is,
though,
clear
that
the
holders
of
Russian
government
bonds,
which
include
international
financial
institutions
as
well,
won’t
like
Yukos
getting
between
them
and
their
money.
In
that
sense,
they
are
with
Russia.
And
Russia
can
take
preventative
action
to
cover
these
risk
spots
that
can
come
under
blow
because
of
the
American
precedent
of
2012.
–
What
specific
action
needs
to
be
done,
in
your
opinion?
–
Make
all
the
foreign
banks
who
act
as
agents
in
servicing
payments
on
the
Russian
government
debt
move
all
these
payment
flows
to
their
correspondent
accounts
with
Russian
state
banks.
And
pay
coupons
and
principal
of
the
debt
only
through
these
accounts,
not
via
their
London
and
New-‐
York
accounts.
–
Can
claimants
arrest
Russian
property
while
the
country
attends
international
exhibitions?
There
was
an
expo
just
recently
in
Milano…
–
What
can
you
get
from
an
expo?
Those
are
just
mockups,
they
are
worth
pennies.
Doesn’t
make
sense
from
the
financial
point
of
view.
Unless
they
want
to
blow
out
a
PR
issue
of
this.
–
What
about
military
expos?
Like,
arresting
Russian
airplanes,
helicopters,
ships?
–
No
chance.
First
of
all,
Russia
probably
sells
weapons
through
some
companies,
not
directly
as
a
sovereign.
As
for
exhibitions,
those
exhibited
items
could
be
owned
by
any
random
third
party.
You
won’t
be
able
to
prove
anything.
But
the
main
principle,
the
general
rule
is
that
military
equipment
cannot
be
arrested.
If
you
touch
that,
you
are
five
minutes
short
of
an
act
of
war.
You
can’t
arrest
a
warship
in
any
decent
court.
Not
in
Bristol,
not
in
Rotterdam,
not
in
New-‐York
–
not
anywhere
else.
Military
property
is
beyond
limits,
so
is
diplomatic
property.
But
with
financial
flows,
you
have
to
be
very
careful.