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John Mayer
Executive Director
CALI
jmayer@cali.org
@johnpmayer
Experiential Learning, Access to Justice &
Technology Enabled Law Practice
Happy Day!
501(c)(3) 200+
US law schools
Three Challenges
•Access to Justice Gap
•Experiential Learning
•Practice Ready Graduates
Three Challenges TL;DR
•Access to Justice Gap – TOO BIG
•Experiential Learning – NOT ENOUGH
•Practice Ready Graduates – THEY AREN’T
Three Challenges
•Access to Justice Gap
•Experiential Learning
•Practice Ready Graduates
Legal Services Corporation funded agencies complete
1,000,000 cases each year
Still:
50% of those seeking legal help at these agencies are turned
away
80% of the poor and working poor in the United States face
their legal problems without the help of a lawyer
LSC’s TIG (since 2000 $4M/year)
Technology Initiative Program
•Statewide websites / 1 per state
•National Server for…
–Document Assembly using HotDocs
–Better SRL interface using A2J Author
A2J Author has “just in time” learning features for the
end-user including: “Learn More” bubbles, definition pop-
ups, audio, graphic and video capabilities.
A2J Guided Interviews on LHI: 2005-2016
3,689,711 runs
2,079,410 assemblies
https://www.nycourts.gov/CourtHelp/DIY/index.shtml
https://www.nycourts.gov/CourtHelp/DIY/index.shtml
Three Challenges
•Access to Justice Gap
•Experiential Learning ???
•Practice Ready Graduates
Law Students -
• Field observation/help desk
• Scope document
• Research memo
• Storyboard
• A2J Guided Interview &
HotDocs template
Justice &
Technology
Practicum
2010-2014
Nebraska:
Due Process for Special Education
Answer & Counterclaim for Divorce
(No Children)
The Justice & Technology Practicum
North Carolina:
Health Care Power of Attorney
Simple Uncontested Divorce (No
Children)
Illinois:
Voluntary Acknowledgement of Paternity
Detinue & Replevin
Unpaid Wage Application
Appointment of a Standby Guardian
Pennsylvania:
Petition for Expungement and Order
Minnesota:
Petition for a Name Change
A2J Projects Deliver Powerful Education…
Deep dive into law, procedure & heuristics
Exposure to policy/ethical issues raised by legal services
delivery and technology
Key competencies for emerging law practice (elawyering,
software driven law practice, unbundling, web2.0 & “cloud
practice”)
Key competencies for all lawyers (teamwork, project
management and empathy)
http://a2jclinic.classcaster.net/
http://a2jclinic.classcaster.net/
•“Overall, this course exposed me to a unique blend of big ideas and technical
skills.”
•“Before I took this …I did not fully grasp the importance of technology in
shaping the future of the legal profession.”
•“I had never done any sort of programming before and it was fun to learn
some of that stuff.”
•“This class was completely different from any other law school class I have
taken.”
Student Reactions
•“I enjoyed learning how to use HotDocs and A2J Author, and was able
to channel my passion for advocacy and public interest into a practical
Guided Interview.”
•“I found the class discussion about ethics interesting because it
challenged us to determine where to draw the line between legal
advice and information.”
•“…challenged my own beliefs about the role of lawyer and the reality
that lawyer are not always necessary for simple processes.”
Student Reactions
•Teaching students software requires support – more AND less than
you think.
•Students have Macs (duh)
•Coordinating with busy lawyers is hard.
•Ideal = two projects / two semesters / longer on-ramp
•Training faculty is hard if they aren’t invested
Lessons Learned
Simulated A2J Author Projects
•Closed universe, 2-4 hour “drop in” project
•Completed exemplar for comparison (i.e. model answer)
•Multiple legal subject area examples
•All the exposure to the problem/process space
•Faculty can pick areas of emphasis – ethics, law,
unbundling, practice, tech, etc.
Three Challenges
•Access to Justice Gap
•Experiential Learning
•Practice Ready Graduates
It’s not computers replacing
lawyers
It’s computers + lawyers
Benefits Calculators
Stand Alone Info Guides
Online Intake
Eligibility Check
Pre Court Checklists
Compliance
Triage
Legal “Health” Checkups
• Rapid response tool (e.g. recent Immigration action)
• Platform for jumpstarting hackathons
• Long term student organization/law clinic projects
.orgwww.
Legal
Education Technology
Law
Practice
Access to
Justice
Law
Practice
Increasingly Automated, Systematized, Digital, Mobile and Online
Legal
Education Technology
Law
Practice
Access to
Justice
Legal
Education Technology
Law
Practice
Access to
Justice
 Sign up for an account and look around
 A little “under construction”, so pardon our dust
 Road Map
.orgwww.
 Hosted A2J Guided Interviews for clinics/law schools
 Packaged simulations for variety of courses
 Mobile friendly (built in)
 Document Assembly tool (simple)
 Training for your classes, support for your students
 Sample syllabi, readings at a2jclinic.classcaster.net
Links to A2J Course Resources
Here is the link to the A2J Author web community: http://www.a2jauthor.org
Here is the link to CALI's A2J Clinic Project: http://a2jclinic.classcaster.net/
Here is the link to the A2J YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/a2jauthor
Here is the link to the A2J Clinic Project Library:
http://a2jcliniclibrary.classcaster.net/
Here is the link to the Chicago-Kent symposium on
Justice, Lawyering and Legal Education in the Digital Age:
http://www.kentlaw.iit.edu/institutes-centers/center-for-access-to-justice-and-
technology/2013-law-review-symposium
John Mayer
Executive Director
CALI
jmayer@cali.org
@johnpmayer
Experiential Learning, Access to Justice &
Technology Enabled Law Practice

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2017 aals clinical_final

  • 1. John Mayer Executive Director CALI jmayer@cali.org @johnpmayer Experiential Learning, Access to Justice & Technology Enabled Law Practice
  • 4.
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  • 8. Three Challenges •Access to Justice Gap •Experiential Learning •Practice Ready Graduates
  • 9. Three Challenges TL;DR •Access to Justice Gap – TOO BIG •Experiential Learning – NOT ENOUGH •Practice Ready Graduates – THEY AREN’T
  • 10. Three Challenges •Access to Justice Gap •Experiential Learning •Practice Ready Graduates
  • 11.
  • 12. Legal Services Corporation funded agencies complete 1,000,000 cases each year Still: 50% of those seeking legal help at these agencies are turned away 80% of the poor and working poor in the United States face their legal problems without the help of a lawyer
  • 13. LSC’s TIG (since 2000 $4M/year) Technology Initiative Program •Statewide websites / 1 per state •National Server for… –Document Assembly using HotDocs –Better SRL interface using A2J Author
  • 14.
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  • 16.
  • 17. A2J Author has “just in time” learning features for the end-user including: “Learn More” bubbles, definition pop- ups, audio, graphic and video capabilities.
  • 18.
  • 19. A2J Guided Interviews on LHI: 2005-2016 3,689,711 runs 2,079,410 assemblies
  • 20.
  • 23.
  • 24. Three Challenges •Access to Justice Gap •Experiential Learning ??? •Practice Ready Graduates
  • 25. Law Students - • Field observation/help desk • Scope document • Research memo • Storyboard • A2J Guided Interview & HotDocs template Justice & Technology Practicum 2010-2014
  • 26. Nebraska: Due Process for Special Education Answer & Counterclaim for Divorce (No Children) The Justice & Technology Practicum North Carolina: Health Care Power of Attorney Simple Uncontested Divorce (No Children) Illinois: Voluntary Acknowledgement of Paternity Detinue & Replevin Unpaid Wage Application Appointment of a Standby Guardian Pennsylvania: Petition for Expungement and Order Minnesota: Petition for a Name Change
  • 27. A2J Projects Deliver Powerful Education… Deep dive into law, procedure & heuristics Exposure to policy/ethical issues raised by legal services delivery and technology Key competencies for emerging law practice (elawyering, software driven law practice, unbundling, web2.0 & “cloud practice”) Key competencies for all lawyers (teamwork, project management and empathy)
  • 30. •“Overall, this course exposed me to a unique blend of big ideas and technical skills.” •“Before I took this …I did not fully grasp the importance of technology in shaping the future of the legal profession.” •“I had never done any sort of programming before and it was fun to learn some of that stuff.” •“This class was completely different from any other law school class I have taken.” Student Reactions
  • 31. •“I enjoyed learning how to use HotDocs and A2J Author, and was able to channel my passion for advocacy and public interest into a practical Guided Interview.” •“I found the class discussion about ethics interesting because it challenged us to determine where to draw the line between legal advice and information.” •“…challenged my own beliefs about the role of lawyer and the reality that lawyer are not always necessary for simple processes.” Student Reactions
  • 32. •Teaching students software requires support – more AND less than you think. •Students have Macs (duh) •Coordinating with busy lawyers is hard. •Ideal = two projects / two semesters / longer on-ramp •Training faculty is hard if they aren’t invested Lessons Learned
  • 33. Simulated A2J Author Projects •Closed universe, 2-4 hour “drop in” project •Completed exemplar for comparison (i.e. model answer) •Multiple legal subject area examples •All the exposure to the problem/process space •Faculty can pick areas of emphasis – ethics, law, unbundling, practice, tech, etc.
  • 34. Three Challenges •Access to Justice Gap •Experiential Learning •Practice Ready Graduates
  • 35. It’s not computers replacing lawyers It’s computers + lawyers
  • 36.
  • 37.
  • 38. Benefits Calculators Stand Alone Info Guides Online Intake Eligibility Check Pre Court Checklists Compliance Triage Legal “Health” Checkups
  • 39. • Rapid response tool (e.g. recent Immigration action) • Platform for jumpstarting hackathons • Long term student organization/law clinic projects .orgwww.
  • 44.  Sign up for an account and look around  A little “under construction”, so pardon our dust  Road Map .orgwww.  Hosted A2J Guided Interviews for clinics/law schools  Packaged simulations for variety of courses  Mobile friendly (built in)  Document Assembly tool (simple)  Training for your classes, support for your students  Sample syllabi, readings at a2jclinic.classcaster.net
  • 45. Links to A2J Course Resources Here is the link to the A2J Author web community: http://www.a2jauthor.org Here is the link to CALI's A2J Clinic Project: http://a2jclinic.classcaster.net/ Here is the link to the A2J YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/a2jauthor Here is the link to the A2J Clinic Project Library: http://a2jcliniclibrary.classcaster.net/ Here is the link to the Chicago-Kent symposium on Justice, Lawyering and Legal Education in the Digital Age: http://www.kentlaw.iit.edu/institutes-centers/center-for-access-to-justice-and- technology/2013-law-review-symposium
  • 46. John Mayer Executive Director CALI jmayer@cali.org @johnpmayer Experiential Learning, Access to Justice & Technology Enabled Law Practice