2. Objectives
After this presentation, the audience should be able to
1. Appreciate the risks of metabolic effects (specifically
hyperglycemia) from antipsychotic medications
2. Explain how to manage acute non-ketonic hyperglycemia
hyperosmolar state (HHS).
3. Make recommendations for patients with new onset diabetes
secondary to antipsychotic therapy
For the purposes of this discussion
Atypical antipsychotics = AAPs = 2nd generation antipsychotics = SGA’s
Typical antipsychotics = TAPs = 1st generation antipsychotics = FGA’s
3. Meet the patient
AM is a 67 year old male who presents to Lahey ER with a CC of
altered mental status and lethargy with increased thirst and urination.
Nurses at his locked psychiatric facility noticed he was behaving
differently.
He became dizzy and fell, causing him to be brought in to Lahey.
There was no documentation of head trauma.
Of note, he was recently treated for furunculosis with Keflex
4. PTA medications
Schizoaffective
disorder
HLD± HTN± INS± BPH± ANX± Smoking
Cessation
Misc.
Clozapine 150 mg
PO daily
Lithium 300 mg PO
daily
Haloperidol 0.5 mg
PO PRN agitation
Atorvastatin
20 mg PO
daily
Metoprolol
tartrate 175
mg by
mouth BID
Melatonin 3
mg HS
Diphen**
25 mg tablet
PO HS PRN
for
insomnia
Tamsulosin
0.4 mg PO
daily
Lorazepam
1 mg PO Q6H
PRN for
anxiety
Nicotine
Polacrilex 4
mg lozenge
PRN for
smoking
cessation
Maalox Advanced, 30 mL
PO Q6H PRN
Clotrimazole 1% cream
every morning and
evening
Vit. D3 1ooo IU QD
B12 1000 mcg QD
Docusate 100 mg capsule
every morning and
evening
Milk of Magnesium 400
mg / 5 mL suspension, 30
mL PO QD PRN
Sennosides 8.6 mg PO
daily
± HLD – Hyperlipidemia, HTN – Hypertension, INS – Insomnia, BPH – Benign prostate hyperplasia, ANX – Anxiety
** diphenhydramine
Medications Held on admission New In-Patient Meds (3 day stay)
Maalox Advanced, 30 mL PO Q6H PRN
Diphenhydramine 25 mg tablet, PO HS PRN
for insomnia
Lithium 300 mg PO daily
Lorazepam 1 mg PO Q6H PRN for anxiety
Sennosides 8.6 mg PO daily
(6/5) Ceftriaxone (6/6) Cefazolin 1 g Q8h
(6/6) Lithium CR 300 BID
Normal Saline IV bolus & Continuous
Heparin 5000 u SC BID
Insulin aspart and glargine
Saccharomyces Boulardii BID
5. Schizoaffective disorder vs. Schizophrenia
• Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5)
definitions
• Schizophrenia – a serious mental illness characterized by at least 2 of
the following symptoms for a minimum of 6 months and include at
least one month of active symptoms. (which interfere with
social/occupational function)
▫ Delusions
▫ Hallucinations
▫ Disorganized speech and behavior
▫ Grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior
▫ Negative symptoms (diminished emotional expression)
DSM-5 2013;150(1):3-10
DSM-5 2013;150(1):21-25
6. Hyperosmolar Hyperglycemia State
Diagnostic Criteria Diagnostic value Our Patient
Blood Glucose > 600 mg / dL 813 mg / dL
Arterial pH > 7.3 7.38
Bicarbonate > 15 mEq / L 24 mEq / L
Mild Ketonuria / Ketonemia Positive Urine ketones negative
Effective Serum Osmolality > 320 mOsm / kg H2O 303 mOsm / kg
Diabetes Care 2009;32(7):1335-1343
Effective serum osmolality = 2(Na) + (Glucose)/18
7. My Questions
How did the endocrinologist associate HHS with clozapine?
What is the nature of clozapine induced diabetes mellitus (DM)?
Did we properly treat AM’s HHS?
How do you manage a patient with diabetes induced by clozapine?
8. Atypical antipsychotics and glucose dysregulation: a
systematic review
4 Case series 13 Epidemiological studies 8 Clinical studies
The case series studies occurred in the
early 2000s and showed a potential
relationship between patients using
atypicals (Clozapine, Olanzapine,
Risperidone and Quetiapine) and new
onset DM
Only 8 reports compared the risk of developing
DM directly or indirectly between SGAs and
FGAs
Only 2 were prospective
7 of the 8 suggested that SGAs had
significantly increased risk of new onset
DM vs FGAs
5 found use of Olanzapine was associated with
significantly greater risk of blood glucose or
insulin levels vs. risperidone or control
8 studies evaluated new-onset DM among
individual SGAs vs. other SGAs or FGAs or
non-users
5 Studies evaluated clozapine
suggested that glucose levels or other
markers of glucose/insulin homeostasis
were significantly increased in
clozapine group vs. FGA or controls
2 studies found no difference in risk of
developing DM with clozapine while 2
other found greater risk
Schizophrenia Research. 2004;71(2-3):195-212
9. Clozapine-associated Diabetes
Hyperglycemic events associated with Clozapine use were searched using
FDA Medwatch (Jan 1990 – Feb 2001)
Medline (Jan 1985 – Feb 2001)
Koller E. et al. 2001
n = 384 cases
11. Association of Diabetes Mellitus with Use of Atypical
Neuroleptics in the Treatment of Schizophrenia
• Retrospective study of ALL patients in VA database with a
diagnosis of schizophrenia during fiscal year of 1999 (October
1, 1998 to September 30, 1999)
• Hypothesis – Prescription of atypical neuroleptics (SGA’s) is
associated with an increased prevalence of diabetes.
AJP. 2002;159(4):561-566Sernyak, Leslie, Alarcon, et al.
12. Full of confounding?
Patients with Dx of
Schizophrenia
(Oct 1998 – Sep 1999)
n = 38,632
15,984 (41.4%) Received
typical antipsychotics
22648 (58.6%) received atypical
antipsychotics
Baseline
Characteristics
The groups were significantly
different in all characteristics
except for Hispanic or Degree of
VA compensation
Significantly
• Younger
• Have less income
• More female
• Incidence of another psychiatry diagnosis
• They also lived further from VA hospital
• Likely hood of being hospitalized
AJP. 2002;159(4):561-566
Association of Diabetes Mellitus with Use of Atypical
Neuroleptics in the Treatment of Schizophrenia
13. What were the odds of DM with atypicals?
• Younger age groups (<60) had higher odds of
DM diagnosis
• For the entire group (all ages) All atypicals
had significantly greater odds of DM
diagnosis except for risperidone
• Although there was no difference in older
groups, look at the rate of diabetes in either
group
AJP. 2002;159(4):561-566
14. Key Points of the articles
Koller et. al. Sernyak et. al.
• Most hyperglycemic events associated with
clozapine occur within 6 months of therapy
initiation.
• There are some cases where discontinuing
clozapine therapy may reverse hyperglycemia /
glucose dysregulation
• 15% of the new-onset diabetes patients developed
blood sugars of > 700 mg/dL
• This study did not show any correlation with
dose and severity of the hyperglycemic event.
• Patients receiving SGAs are 9% more likely to
have DM than those on conventional
antipsychotics (p = 0.002)
• Younger aged patients with schizophrenia who
take atypicals have significantly greater odds of
having DM diagnosis vs. those not taking
atypicals. The odds are not significant in older
patients (60+)
• This supports that older patients are more likely
to get diabetes and metabolic dysregulation due
to the nature of the disease.
15. Back to our patient…
Diagnostic Criteria Diagnostic value Our Patient
Blood Glucose > 600 mg / dL 813 mg / dL
Arterial pH > 7.3 7.38
Bicarbonate > 15 mEq / L 24 mEq / L
Mild Ketonuria / Ketonemia Positive Urine ketones negative
Effective Serum Osmolality > 320 mOsm / kg H2O 303 mOsm / kg
Diabetes Care 2009;32(7):1335-1343
Effective serum osmolality = 2(Na) + (Glucose)/18
16. Treatment regimen for hyperosmolar hyperglycemia state
Diabetes Care 2009;32(7):1335-1343
18. Review of outpatient monitoring with antipsychotics
Baseline 4 weeks 8 weeks 12 weeks Quarterly Annually Every 5
years
Personal/Family Hx X X
Weight (BMI) X X X X X
Waist Circumf. X X
Blood Pressure X X X
Fasting blood gluc. X X X X
Fasting Lipid panel X X
Diabetes Care. 2004;27(2):596-601
“Consider switching to a less offensive agent if the patient
develops a weight gain of 5% or more during any time of
treatment with SGA or those who develop worsening glycemia
or dyslipidemia”
19. Patient discharge
• AM was discharged on 6/7/16 (2 days inpatient) to Bedford VA to
be followed up with psychiatry and endocrinology
Schizoaffective
disorder
HLD± HTN± INS± BPH± ANX± Smoking
Cessation
Misc.
Clozapine 150 mg
PO daily
Lithium 300 mg PO
daily
Haloperidol 0.5 mg
PO PRN agitation
Atorvastatin
20 mg PO
daily
Metoprolol
tartrate 175
mg by
mouth BID
Melatonin 3
mg HS
Diphen**
25 mg tablet
PO HS PRN
for
insomnia
Tamsulosin
0.4 mg PO
daily
Lorazepam
1 mg PO Q6H
PRN for
anxiety
Nicotine
Polacrilex 4
mg lozenge
PRN for
smoking
cessation
Maalox Advanced, 30 mL
PO Q6H PRN
Clotrimazole 1% cream
every morning and
evening
Vit. D3 1ooo IU QD
B12 1000 mcg QD
Docusate 100 mg capsule
every morning and
evening
Milk of Magnesium 400
mg / 5 mL suspension, 30
mL PO QD PRN
Sennosides 8.6 mg PO
daily
New Medication at D/C
Insulin aspart sliding scale and insulin glargine 40 units SC HS
Continue with PTA medications
20. Any Questions ?
References
• Malaspina D, Owen MJ, Heckers S, et al. Schizoaffective Disorder in the DSM-5. Schizophrenia Research. 2013;150(1):21-25.
doi:10.1016/j.schres.2013.04.026. Accessed 6/18/2016
• Tandon R, Gaebel W, Barch DM, et al. Definition and description of schizophrenia in the DSM-5. Schizophrenia Research. 2013;150(1):3-10.
doi:10.1016/j.schres.2013.05.028.
• Kitabchi AE, Umpierrez GE, Miles JM, Fisher JN. Hyperglycemic Crises in Adult Patients With Diabetes. Diabetes Care. 2009;32(7):1335-
1343. doi:10.2337/dc09-9032.
• Koller E, Schneider B, Bennett K, Dubitsky G. Clozapine-associated diabetes. The American Journal of Medicine. 2001;111(9):716-723.
doi:10.1016/s0002-9343(01)01000-2.
• Taylor M, Perera U. NICE CG178 Psychosis and Schizophrenia in Adults: Treatment and Management - an evidence-based guideline. The
British Journal of Psychiatry. 2015;206(5):357-359. doi:10.1192/bjp.bp.114.155945.
• Consensus Development Conference on Antipsychotic Drugs and Obesity and Diabetes. Diabetes Care. 2004;27(2):596-601.
doi:10.2337/diacare.27.2.596.
• Jin H, Meyer JM, Jeste DV. Atypical antipsychotics and glucose dysregulation: a systematic review. Schizophrenia Research. 2004;71(2-3):195-
212. doi:10.1016/j.schres.2004.03.024
• Clozapine and the Risk of Neutropenia: A Guide for Healthcare Providers. Clozapine REMS.
https://www.clozapinerems.com/cpmgclozapineui/rems/pdf/resources/clozapine_rems_a_guide_for_healthcare_providers.pdf. Published
September 2015. Accessed June 23, 2016.
• Sernyak MJ, Leslie DL, Alarcon RD, Losonczy MF, Rosenheck R. Association of Diabetes Mellitus With Use of Atypical Neuroleptics in the
Treatment of Schizophrenia. American Journal of Psychiatry AJP. 2002;159(4):561-566. doi:10.1176/appi.ajp.159.4.561.
Hinweis der Redaktion
Tell audience the lab values
Cephalexin Ceftriaxone x1 dose Cefazolin (no documented reason for continuation of Abx)
(click)
Nicotine was never given in patient.
Patient was treated with relatively low doses for psychosis.
Lithium usually 300 mg TID
Clozapine usually titrated to 300-900 mg QD
However, patient seemed to be stable on these doses.
Metoprolol is a high dose but falls below its maximum of 450 mg daily for HTN.
DSM 5 criteria for Schizoaffective disorder
Unterurrupted period of MDD (2 week period of 5 or more Category A symptoms) concurrent with schizophrenia
1. Depressed mood most of the day, almost every day, indicated by your own subjective report or by the report of others. This mood might be characterized by sadness, emptiness, or hopelessness.2. Markedly diminished interest or pleasure in all or almost all activities most of the day nearly every day.3. Significant weight loss when not dieting or weight gain.4. Inability to sleep or oversleeping nearly every day.5. Psychomotor agitation or retardation nearly every day.6. Fatigue or loss of energy nearly every day.7. Feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt (which may be delusional) nearly every day.8. Diminished ability to think or concentrate, or indecisiveness, nearly every day.9. Recurrent thoughts of death (not just fear of dying), recurrent suicidal ideation without a specific plan, or a suicide attempt or a specific plan for committing suicide.
Depressed mood. Delusions or hallucinations for 2 or more weeks in the absence of major mood episode (Depressive or Manic) during the lifetime duration of the illness
Symptoms meet criteria for a Major Mood Episodes are present for the majority of the total duration of active and residual portions of the illness
The disturbance is not attributable to the effects of a substance or anther medical condition.
Today, therapy for schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder revolve around Atypicals
Decreased Extrapyramidal effects! Effects on both POSITIVE and NEGATIVE symptoms
Positive symptoms include: Delusions, voices, paranoia, ideas of reference (talking TV), visual hallucinations (disturbances of thoughts and perceptions
Clozapine Notes
First atypical approved in United States in 1989!
NO EPS symptoms
Today, last line
LOTS of weight gain
MOA – Pulsatile D2 blockade Low EPS and low hyperprolactinemia issues
GOAL Dosage range 300-900 mg / day, titrated 25-50 mg everyday over a 2 week period
Common ADRs SALIVATION, Seizure risk, hypotension, bradycardia, WEIGHT GAIN
Metabolized by 1A2 (cigarettes) and 3A4 (carbamazepine) – Watch for inducers.
REMS
Qwk x 6 mo, then QoW x 6 mo, then Q4w thereafter
NICE guidelines say that Clozapine should be utilized as an agent after 2 other atypical antipsychotics have failed
Patient has schizoaffective disorder. Which of his drugs covers the “mood” portion of his illness?
Management of schizoaffective disorder
Lithium at a goal level of 0.4-1 for management
Lithium is the only drug that covers both Mania and Depression
The patient was on a really low dose at home 300 mg PO daily?
ADRs: Leukocytosis (the patient!), Hypothyroid (Patient!), Weight gain, Diabetes Insipidus (Na wasting… Patient), Tremor (treat w/ BB), NEPHROTOXIC (patient)
Common drug interactions: Lower (theophylline and excess sodium), Higher (ACE/ARB, Diuretics, NSAIDs, Carbamazepine (SIADH reduces Na), Na depletion. Caffeine is variable.
However, when calculated with BUN consideration
2(Na) + (BUN)/2.8 + (Glucose)/18 = 319.24
Precipitating factors – Infection, CVA, Alcohol abuse, pancreatitis, MI, Trauma, DRUGS
ENDOCRINOLOGIST associated the patient’s HHS with clozapine.
This was a systematic review, not a meta analysis
There are very limited prospective studies. I could not find much with my own search.
It was more of a display of multiple studies and provided no further statistical conclusions.
Methods were not described
Professional disclosures were not provided
Results were difficult to ascertain as they were presented in paragraph form.
The presented data made it easier for providers at the time to see a relationship between SGAs and DM
Study design – Retrospective epidemiologic study. Medline search for published cases (Jan 1985-Feb 2001) and MedWatch Drug Surveillance System (from Jan 1990 to Feb 2001). Drug utilization data obtained through IMS. Solely a descriptive study.
Purpose – TO show an association with clozapine use and hyperglycemic events, more importantly new-onset diabetes and preexisting diabetes exacerbations
Population – Cases were combined to prevent double counting.
Intervention – NONE
Endpoints – For each case, the investigators assessed “documentation “ of diabetes, severity of illness, new onset hyperglycemia, demographics, time to onset of hyperglycemia and effect of drug discontinuation.
Definition of new-onset diabetes = FBG > 126 mg/dL, random BG > 200 mg/dL, elevated A1C (>6.5), presence of metabolic acidosis or ketosis, OR physician institution of antidiabetic medication.
Statistics – all statistics were descriptive. No analytical statistics.
Results
N = 384 cases of clozapine-associated DM or hyperglycemia (238 from US and 146 international) (included 39 cases in 24 publications)
323 New-onset hyperglycemia
171 patients fit the criteria for diabetes
Of those diagnosed by FBG values, all but 4 had FBG > 140
152 patients did not have enough lab data
Of these patients, 49 were using antidiabetic medications.
of these, 7 patients had acidosis or ketosis
54 reports of worsening preexisting diabetes after clozapine
7 cases – unclear if preexisting or new-onset
Demographics (Table 1 on article)
age was known in 89% of cases, majority of participants
Sex ratio (Male:Female) – 92% known in all cases, overall more males
However, when split up amongst type of hyperglycemia, more females in each section (except for overall new-onset hyperglycemia)
Time to onset 76% of cases provided temporal information. In most cases (175) , hyperglycemic events occurred within 6 months of starting clozapine.
141 of the 171 (82% known) new-onset diabetes patients had temporal information
38 (27%) of these patients diabetes was diagnosed within the first month of clozapine therapy
79 (56%) within the first 3 months
One patient developed diabetes after a 500 mg dose!
47 of the 54 patients (87%) preexisting patients had temporal information
18 (38%) had exacerbation in first month
30 (64%) had exacerbation within 3 months.
Dose of clozapine was available in 83% of cases (320)
overall had a mean dose of 362 + 208 mg .
Lowest dose that caused hyperglycemic event OR new-onset hyperglycemia – 25 mg!!!
No correlation between dose and severity of event.
Correlation coefficients were all positive but all below 50%
Drug levels were not available
Concomitant drugs
No one was on steroids, 1 person on Megace
Most common concurrent meds were – Valproic acid, Lithium, Benzatropine, Major tranquilizers, thyroid hormone, H2 blockers and PPIs
Reversibility
110 discontinuations
Only 54 of the 110 had follow up data
42 reported to improve
26 no longer required diabetes treatment
18 had blood sugar levels return to normal.
11 had no change
12 patients were rechallenged – 9/12 deteriorated.
glycemic control occurred again in 4 patients after d/c of rechallenge.
51 cases of 323 new onset hyperglycemia patients had BG > 700 mg/dL (table 2)
at least 63% of these cases occurred within first 3 months.
26 of these patients had ketosis / acidosis.
80 cases of Ketosis / acidosis, 73 of these cases were with new-onset diabetes.
Researchers conclude there is a correlation but no causality due to the nature of the study
Given the limited data on AM, we could assume that he was recently started on Clozapine since he is not at the most common target dose of 300-900 mg daily
Most cases occur within 6 months of use. However, the investigators not that the range for time to onset was 2 days – 5 years
Most hyperglycemic events associated with clozapine occur within 6 months of therapy initiation.
There are some cases where discontinuing clozapine therapy may reverse hyperglycemia / glucose dysregulation
15% of the new-onset diabetes patients developed blood sugars of > 700 mg/dL
This study did not show any correlation with dose and severity of the hyperglycemic event.
Limitations of this study
Medwatch is voluntary, misses lots of data, there is no control group. A larger number of case reports would be more useful to see a better relationship
The atypicals available at the time included
Clozapine, Olanzapine, Quetiapine and Risperidone
Study – Retrospective 4 month observation of national VA databases. (data was Jun – Sep 1999)
Population - All patients with Dx of Schizophrenia (ICD 9 cod 295) were included.
N = 38,632
15,984 (41.4%) Received typical antipsychotics
22648 (58.6%) received atypical antipsychotics (separated by last neuroleptic prescribed and 7 days prior)
8.9% of these patients also had a FGA
94% of these patients remained on the same one through the 4 month period.
Exclusion from analysis - If no neuroleptic prescription was written for the entire 4 month period
Interventions
FGA’s only– 15,985
SGA’s + FGA – 22,648
Clozapine – 1207
Olanzapine – 10970
Quetiapine – 955
Risperidone - 9903
Endpoint
Diagnosis of diabetes = at least 1 outpatient encounter or inpatient stay with ICD codes 250 (diabetes) during 4 month period.
.
Statistics
Baseline characteristics were compared with T-test (for continuous data) and X squared test (nominal data)
Endpoint was analyzed with Logistic regression to calculate ODDS ratio. This addresses potentially confounding data.
Data was stratified for age groups
< 40 , 40 – 49, 50 -59, 60 – 69, and over 70 years
4 Dichotomous variables (each atypical neuroleptic) had repeated analysis to determine ODDS ratio for each drug in each age strata.
A composite of all age groups were combined to form a single analysis with age as the covariate to determine population-wide prevalence of diabetes
Results (see next page)
(previous page)
Study – Retrospective 4 month observation of national VA databases. (data was Jun – Sep 1999)
Population - All patients with Dx of Schizophrenia (ICD 9 cod 295) were included.
N = 38,632
15,984 (41.4%) Received typical antipsychotics
22648 (58.6%) received atypical antipsychotics (separated by last neuroleptic prescribed and 7 days prior)
8.9% of these patients also had a FGA
94% of these patients remained on the same one through the 4 month period.
Exclusion from analysis - If no neuroleptic prescription was written for the entire 4 month period
Interventions
FGA’s only– 15,985
SGA’s + FGA – 22,648
Clozapine – 1207
Olanzapine – 10970
Quetiapine – 955
Risperidone - 9903
Endpoint
Diagnosis of diabetes = at least 1 outpatient encounter or inpatient stay with ICD codes 250 (diabetes) during 4 month period.
All atypicals = Clozapine, Olanzapine, Quetiapine and Risperidone
Major limitation – small data window – patient could have taken atypical before the 4 month window and switched to typical only therapy?
No weight data was available. No compliance data was analyzed. Dependence on ICD 9 codes isn’t 100% accurate (look at our Lahey problem lists)
Study – Retrospective 4 month observation of national VA databases.
Population - All patients with Dx of Schizophrenia (ICD 9 cod 295) were included.
N = 38,632
15,984 (41.4%) Received typical antipsychotics (separated by last neuroleptic prescribed and 7 days prior)
22648 (58.6%) received atypical antipsychotics
8.9% of these patients also had a FGA
94% of these patients remained on the same one through the 4 month period.
Exclusion from analysis - If no neuroleptic prescription was written for the entire 4 month period
Interventions
FGA’s only– 15,985
SGA’s + FGA – 22,648
Clozapine – 1207
Olanzapine – 10970
Quetiapine – 955
Risperidone - 9903
Endpoint
Diagnosis of diabetes = at least 1 outpatient encounter or inpatient stay with ICD codes 250 (diabetes) during 4 month period.
Statistics
Baseline characteristics were compared with T-test (for continuous data) and X squared test (nominal data)
Endpoint was analyzed with Logistic regression to calculate ODDS ratio. This addresses potentially confounding data.
Data was stratified for age groups
< 40 , 40 – 49, 50 -59, 60 – 69, and over 70 years
4 Dichotomous variables (each atypical neuroleptic) had repeated analysis to determine ODDS ratio for each drug in each age strata.
A composite of all age groups were combined to form a single analysis with age as the covariate to determine population-wide prevalence of diabetes
However, when calculated with BUN consideration
2(Na) + (BUN)/2.8 + (Glucose)/18 = 319.24
Precipitating factors – Infection, CVA, Alcohol abuse, pancreatitis, MI, Trauma, DRUGS
NS was given 6/5 0224 0402 (1000 mL/hr = 2L total) and 6/6 0833 0933 (1000 mL/hr)
Continuous NS 100 mL/hr was started at 6/5 0323 D/C at 6/7 1722
As you can see, this patient clearly has HHS not DKA because he is very responsive to insulin therapy.
He responded very well to the 8 units IV bolus of Regular insulin . Blood sugar dropped from 815 to 536 (35% drop)
So what do you guys think should happen?
Should clozapine be discontinued?
I disagreed with that Lithium 300 mg PO daily as this resulted in the low lithium level PTA.
However, he is going to follow up with his psychiatrist to revaluate his therapy.
I do agree with the increase in basal insulin as his glucose levels are still quite high.