Chat box from #edgetalks in July 2017

1. Chat from #EdgeTalks July 2017
from Cormac Russell to all participants:
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/abcd-in-action-2-day-workshop-on-the-theory-and-
practice-of-asset-based-community-development-tickets-35508978310
from Cormac Russell to all participants:
ABCD in Action - 2 Day Workshop on the theory and practice of Asset Based
Community Development
Nurture Development
Monday, 4 September 2017 at 09:00 - Tuesday, 5 September 2017 at 17:00 (BST)
Huddersfield, United Kingdom
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
Good morning everyone.
from mel to all participants:
Morning
from Paul Woodley to all participants:
Morning all from a very sunny Coventry!
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
Fantastic weather here in Crodyon.
from mel to all participants:
I'm Mel from Coventry
from sara Naylor-Wild to all participants:
good morning, I am a Development and Research Director for a not for profit care
organisation in Bristol. Interested in developing community voices in changing
organisations. Bright and sunny morning in the South West
from Mark Gilman to all participants:
Good morning from an overcast Clitheroe, Lancashire
from Clenton Farquharson to all participants:
Good morning from sunny Birmingham
from Mark Gilman to all participants:
My primary interest is in community based recovery from 'addictions'
from Cormac Russell to all participants:
Morning everyone, Cormac here, looking forward to the conversation. I'll be focusing
on the practicalities of community work at neighbourhood level, is that of interest to
folks?
from mel to all participants:
I've not used this before so I'm hoping I'm doing it right! I'm a patient that uses
creativity and community action as a way to manage my conditions. I'm part of
#covmindthegap Looking forward to finding out more. I'm looking for inspiration and
connections
from Mark Gilman to all participants:
My fingers are crossed that I have connected correctly too Mel
from @ollybenson Oliver Benson to all participants:
Hello from a sunny Coventry.

2. from Patrick Fowler to all participants:
Good morning everyone. Patrick here from sunny Hampshire.
from Cormac Russell to all participants:
Morning Mark, good to see you on here! BW Cormac
from Clenton Farquharson to all participants:
First time as well.
from Ruth Twiggins to all participants:
Hi all, i am from NHS England in the Empowering People & Communities Team
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
Good morning everyone from a Welsh monastery!
from @ollybenson Oliver Benson to all participants:
Hi @Ruth - is that part of Neil Churchill's team?
from Jayne Beecham to all participants:
Hello. I work at NHS England in the person-centred care team.
from Mark Gilman to all participants:
How best can primary care recognise, acknowledge and use the resources in the
community? I am thinking about things like Alcoholics Anonymous that are getting
fantastic results around here in East Lancashire but we rarely see anyone who gets
to AA from a GP, why is that?
from Cormac Russell to all participants:
Hi Clenton, welcome, good to see you on here.
from tom houston to all participants:
be interested to hear how the public view the idea of being more pro-active....
from Cormac Russell to all participants:
A Welsh monastry! That sounds intriguing Lynne? C
from Clenton Farquharson to all participants:
Hi Cormac
from Sara Bains to all participants:
Hello all, i am from Wellbeing Erewash an NHS vanguard site in Derbyshire. happy
to be here today
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
Hi Clenton - great to see you on the chat. Its where I live :)
from Clenton Farquharson to all participants:
I'm interested in how, public agency build trust to support community action.
from tony longbone to all participants:
Good morning all, looking forward to hearing more about #ABCD and building asset
based health communities
from Clenton Farquharson to all participants:
Hi Lynne, great to be on the chat.
from tony longbone to all participants:
Good morning Cormac
from @ollybenson Oliver Benson to all participants:
Morning Cormac!
from Mark Gilman to all participants:

3. Good morning Cormac and Jeremy
from Anna Eaton to all participants:
Good morning everyone! I'm Anna from the Ideas Hub which is an online platform for
collecting and sharing the stories of those who are already using collaborative,
strength based and community approaches in their work on the front line.
from alex ankrah to all participants:
Good morning: Person centred care is gold standard, but without us being clinically
culturally competent - we will continue to perpetuate neo-colonialism. Sadly our
communities have lost trust and confidence, so the starting point is the difficult
conversation were we simply first say sorry. My work with communities has taught
me the power of admitting the past, helps build legacy.
from tom houston to all participants:
why on earth would anyone want to avoid bearaucracy? only joking
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
Cormac - making me emotional (again!)
from Mark Gilman to all participants:
Absolutely! Thats why the recovery community in East Lancs is so vibrant. People
understand that "Faith without works is dead!"
from @ollybenson Oliver Benson to all participants:
does anyone enjoy bureaucracy?
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
I love the idea of gifts in people - what do you think?
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
yes love gift giver
from tony longbone to all participants:
Janet, i think it's a wonderful thing. We all have gifts to give and we all appreciate
receiving a gift, whether that be a kind word, an offer of support or a listening ear.
from Mark Gilman to all participants:
There is a guy here in East Lancs AA who is 40 years sober, he is 75 years old and
last Sunday evening he introduced 35 younger people to the 12 step programme in
Clitheroe Fire Station
from tony longbone to all participants:
That's a great piece of work Mark
from Mark Gilman to all participants:
And all for free! Those 35 people couldnt buy access to that kind of practical wisdom
from Clenton Farquharson to all participants:
I believe in the idea of gifts, however we have created a culture of doing to, doing for,
how have we embeded doing with.
from Clenton Farquharson to all participants:
Yes. A Life not service.
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
How can we shift leaders to think in this way? - conversations?
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
So true and how much is interdependency understood?

4. from Jeremy Taylor to all participants:
Hi - sorry I'm late!
from Paul Woodley to All Attendees:
Fashinably late! You just building suspense!
from Clenton Farquharson to all participants:
Yes - reconnecting to be human, we have forgotting the art of conversation. We are
social creatures.
from Sara Bains to all participants:
you can sing as well Cormac?!
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/abcd-in-action-2-day-workshop-on-the-theory-and-
practice-of-asset-based-community-development-tickets-35508978310 Corma would
like to invite you to a training workshop he is going to deliver.
from tony longbone to all participants:
I think we're a way off yet Lynne, there is much talk about co-production but the
approach still relies on community input and not community togetherness to create.
We need to get better empowering people to share and use there talents in creating
something that matters to them.
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
What is your voice like in a choir - do you try to blend in or take the mike?
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
The language here is so important. It will determine if people take us seriously.
from tony longbone to all participants:
Agreed Cormac, increases there isolation instead of reducing it
from Mark Gilman to all participants:
My ego tells me to take the mike but I resist
from tony longbone to all participants:
moving from the me to we... so important.
from Mark Gilman to all participants:
There is no ME or I in recovery, only ever WE
from Phil brough to all participants:
agree, language so important.... How do we bring wider system with us so they don't
just see this as 'fluffy' stuff but core to building long term individual/ community
resilience
from tony longbone to all participants:
Absolutely Mark
from Mark Gilman to all participants:
Addicts and alcoholics alone with or wthout medical and clinical support die.
Together we live and thrive
from Sara Bains to all participants:
as people from services how can we effect the stealth approach to enable and be
invisibale in communities?
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:

5. Conversations at all levels . truth telling; speak truth to ower . we cannot continue
with outmoded approaches
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
Well done than well said - is that what we mean by agency?
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
Give each other a good listening to! Love it :)
from Mark Gilman to all participants:
I am involved with The Well a community based recovery organisation in Barrow in
Furness, Lancaster and Morecambe
from tony longbone to all participants:
OOOOh, agency - loving this terminology
from Jo Johnson to all participants:
Inspirational and thought provoking. This is sparking so much thinking for me about
the 'neighbourhoods' professional staff inhabit and work in. So many transferable
principles to any community or neighbourhood. Brilliant!
from @ollybenson Oliver Benson to all participants:
@tony Me too!
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
Any questions for Cormac?
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
22 people crushed by the work to do - resonates
from Sara Bains to all participants:
thank you Cormac!
from tony longbone to all participants:
@Cormac - What has been the biggest challenge with the #ABCD approach?
from Catherine Foot to all participants:
Fantastic talk Cormac, so much to think about.
from @ollybenson Oliver Benson to all participants:
Wow! Thank you for a really thought provoking presentation
from tony longbone to all participants:
Thanks Cormac, great presentation
from Meena Patel to all participants:
Inspirational as ever!
from Robert Edmonds to all participants:
focis
from Robert Edmonds to all participants:
focussing on whatg
from Robert Edmonds to all participants:
focussing on whay
from Robert Edmonds to all participants:
t
from Cormac Russell to all participants:
www.nurturedevelopment.org
from Jo Johnson to all participants:

6. It really is all about seeing the person for who they are as well as what they do?
Untapped potential comes to my mind.
from Robert Edmonds to all participants:
focussing on what should be treasured...yes!
from Cormac Russell to all participants:
www.abcdinstitute.org
from Phil brough to all participants:
Excellent presentation, thanks - energises need for culture change in system !
from tony longbone to all participants:
Absolutely Jo, I have spoken on may occasions about a person's potential to
maintain their own health
from Jo Johnson to all participants:
I love speaking from the heart which Cormac has done. Thanks so much
from alex ankrah to all participants:
I am community - speaking language of community is easy - it means being
authentic
from Anna Eaton to all participants:
Thanks Cormac. I love the part about parties not meetings!
from Clenton Farquharson to all participants:
Thanks! Cormac
from tony longbone to all participants:
Hi Jeremy, thanks for joining us
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
This is such a difficult agenda but we need to bring the energy, movement into the
system.
from mel to all participants:
Thanks Cormac loved your talk!
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
we relish a challenge ! great people speaking and in the chat room :)
from Mark Gilman to all participants:
Fantastic Cormac. Sorry I couldnt make it to Doncaster. I was in Glasgow at the
North West Recovery Communities 5th Annual celebration
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
Language and lack of consistent terminology - a key issue
from Mark Gilman to all participants:
I used to be the Public Health England Strategic Recovery Lead from 2010 to 2015
from tony longbone to all participants:
That sounds like exciting Mark
from Clenton Farquharson to all participants:
Language is powerful. Much of the language that has grown up around health and
social care prolongs the notion that there are people and organisations who give
care and support and people who need care and support. Coproduction
fundamentally challenges this notion.
from Mark Gilman to all participants:

7. It was but the appetite for Asset Based work in PHE and other Government
Departments is always challenged by medical and clinical claims of 'expertise'
from alex ankrah to all participants:
Stat Services and truth talking: I think Barrow is a gret example of changing minds
and better outcomes through powerful partnership - given the recent tragedies from
the failings in public health at the Forum theatre (Legionalle deaths and nearly 200
infected) to maternity scandal. The issue is how to win trust and confidence - not
just Duty of Candour but building trust between people and stat services. Starts with
honesty
from tony longbone to all participants:
Couldn't agree more Lynne, a little like the fluctating diagnosis in some people's MH
journey (not helpful, increases anxiety, drives confusion and reduces sense of self)
from Mark Gilman to all participants:
'Bureaucractic managerialism' still dominates public services and Devo Manchester
is in danger of repeating the same fundamental mistakes
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
Assumption of paternalism despite effort sof individuals - amen!
from tony longbone to all participants:
Totally Mark, I feel we will have a constant battle with 'clinician knows best'
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
So true - yet the person knows their condition impact best. the indivdiual is the expert
from tony longbone to all participants:
Isn't that the truth Lynne, I have learnt more from those I support about there
condition than I have from any book.
from Ruth Twiggins to all participants:
All of us on the call are probably the converted - real challenge is how do we get
those with comissioning resources to actually invest in supporting community -
rehtoric to reality....
from alex ankrah to all participants:
question on importance to work: I have no targets built into my work or process, or
indeed policy framework. So whilst personally I think crucial. Not a requirement of
my work.
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
I agree. How do we get the system on board on this agenda?
from Sara Bains to all participants:
How do we enable the a change in the 'paternalistic grip' that the medical profession
are so keen to hold onto? 'They' have a lot of power in the fundamental decisions
being made by DoH/NHS
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
yes poll results indicate that. Could our energy be used in converstaions with power?
from Phil brough to all participants:
agree Ruth, think in part, identifying champions in these approaches at multiple
levels e.g senior commissioners, clinicians, front line staff etc
from tony longbone to all participants:

8. I think we need to be having conversations at all levels, show where the connections
can be made and celebrate together examples of good practice
from Mark Gilman to all participants:
Credit is due to a guy called Chris Lee in Lancashire County Council who is a
commissioner who supports ABCD
from tony longbone to all participants:
make the connections - this is the step I feel we as 'believers' need to prioritise
from Phil brough to all participants:
can we please clone Chris Lee :)
from tony longbone to all participants:
lol @Phil
from Mark Gilman to all participants:
Also Anthony Bullock in Staffordshire County Concil and Niamh Cullen in Calderdale
from Jo Johnson to all participants:
There is something for me about looking at our approaches and assumptions about
what commisisoners are doing? Applying Cormacs principles means that we have to
get closer to understanding what 'life' is like for commisisoners and spend time
supporting them to build their own agency?
from Phil brough to all participants:
great
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
Does this give you the freedom you need Alex to do interesting work?
from alex ankrah to all participants:
My expereince is the so called 'converted' - have not always built in the chacks and
balances, or structures to sustain this work. In addition if we look at Race and
Disability -we can see 'the converted' continue to fail to deliver inclusion and
diversity. We only need to look at Boards, Leadership and indeed staffing to see the
lack of inclusion and social cohesion.
from Phil brough to all participants:
I have to dash to another meeting but thank you Cormac/ Jeremy and national
voices for great session
from Meena Patel to all participants:
This is about cultural/attitudinal change which seems to get forgotten. Evidence
alone doesn't get us where we want to be
from Sara Bains to all participants:
Friends and family test fundamentally flawed as there is little chioce of alternative
services!
from Clenton Farquharson to all participants:
Totally agree Meena.
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
agree Meena!
from tony longbone to all participants:
What approaches do we take to find out what matters to people and how can we
collect richer information?

9. from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
so true Jeremy re accountability ( for the wrong things)
from Cormac Russell to all participants:
Jeremy, what I was saying is that you're measurements will be a lot better and more
liberating if you treasure what you measure, rather than objectify it. C
from Cormac Russell to all participants:
But also there are certain things that ppl treasure which we can't measure.
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
measure what you treasure?
from alex ankrah to all participants:
Measuring outcomes - means asking people what they need, as well want - not
same thing. My work with ambulance trusts, showed me if we got it right for people
with LD, then chances were, that we were getting communcation with wider
community right. Again we are only as good as the number of Serious Untoward
Incidents we ensure do not happen, as well as the evidence of people being around
the table. Easy to measure who is in the room, more difficult to be honest about who
is getting best outcomes.
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
Thanks Jo. Commissioner do a fantastic job and could really benefit from support on
this agenda.
from helen bevan to all participants:
Hi everyone. I only just managed to join but I look forward to watching the recording
as soon as it is available
from Clenton Farquharson to all participants:
Totally agree Jeremy.
from tony longbone to all participants:
Morning Helen
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
We need a voice at those round tables!
from Linda Hutchinson to all participants:
Agree with more training on asset based approaches. To be effective people need to
want to learn. Change of mindset, having the 'aha' moment - that is needed first.
from Patrick Fowler to all participants:
Hi Jeremy, i work with Healthwatch. Do you know of examples where Healthwatch
around the country have promoted this specific partnership approach across local
communities and health/care systems?
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
Social leadership so different to current models enacted and promoted
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
Hi Linday, what part of the asset based approach would you like training on?
from tony longbone to all participants:
Busy trying to bring the voice of the frontline to board meetings, but still a lot of fear
and reluctance in supporting that and would love to see this develop into the voice of
those who use services being heard at board level

10. from Meena Patel to all participants:
A sevice is not an outcome!
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
Lynne - we really need to understand social leadership and what it means to system
leaders. Any thoughts?
from Mark Gilman to all participants:
The recovery communities in East Lancashire are led by people in recovery who
have a life and are living it in East Lancashire and others are drawn to them as they
see them getting a life and "getting well where they got sick"
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
yes a lot!
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
there is talk of distributed leadership etc but there are perverse incentives against it.
Soical leadership requires the relinquish of power and is threatening to many and
that within a culture of fear
from Mark Gilman to all participants:
My early experience of Geater manchester Devolution is depressing as a new
bureaucarcy seems to be emerging to replace the old one
from Jo Johnson to all participants:
Thanks Jeremy. You have described exactly why I work in healthcare. It is all about
the realtionship, showing up and having human conversations. Such a priviledge to
be part of this work.
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
We have only three minutes left. Do let me know the questions you have for our
presenters. Lets keep talking in the chat room.
from Mark Gilman to all participants:
Yes, thanks Jeremy - synergy with Cormac
from Clenton Farquharson to all participants:
Thank You Jeremy I have to go Now! Thanks you all . There great quote by Maya
Angelou- That I do my best to live by "My mission in life is not merely to survive, but
to thrive, and to do so with some passion, some compassion, some humour, and and
some style".
from tony longbone to all participants:
@Janet -where has that hour gone?
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
third sector want to be friends! and good to hear private sector mentioned - theyre
not all bad.
from Sara Bains to all participants:
Great quote Clenton
from tony longbone to all participants:
No apologies needed Jeremy
from Sara Bains to all participants:
Thank you Jeremy
from Cormac Russell to all participants:

11. Excellent presentation Jeremey, huge synergies
from tony longbone to all participants:
Love that quote Clenton
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
the leadership of cultures and associational life - fab!
from Mark Gilman to all participants:
"I cant WE can!"
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
have better conversations ! believe i your own power - great!
from Linda Hutchinson to all participants:
Thanks for excellent session
from Patrick Fowler to all participants:
Many thanks Cormac and Jeremy and also Janet for hosting.
from mel to all participants:
Thanks for brilliant session
from Mark Gilman to all participants:
Thanks Cormac and Jeremy and all participants
from Jayne Beecham to all participants:
Great session. Thought provoking.
from Sara Bains to all participants:
this has been fantastic, thank you so much
from tony longbone to all participants:
Thank you Cormac and Jeremy, inspiring stuff and look forward to sharing the
learning wider
from Mark Gilman to all participants:
Bye
from Paul Woodley to all participants:
Thanks all
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
Have a wonderful weekend everyone.