Joseph Chura is the founder and CEO of 2 startups that employ nearly a combined 100 people, yet he feels a constant drive for more. In this conversation with Jerry, Joseph shares his struggles to be present, especially at home with his wife and kids. Why is the drive, the itch to not sit still, so strong? What’s he running towards? Or perhaps running from? Joseph and Jerry explore why he feels compelled to run, take a look at how & what Joseph is using to define success and why mindfulness is about so much more than meditation...it’s about expanding the space between stimulus and response.

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Welcome to the Reboot podcast. I’m Dan Putt, one of the partners here at Reboot. I could not be
more excited about this show. I’ve known Jerry for almost seven years now, and without a doubt,
can say that my work with him has had a profound impact on my life. In this show, we’re
opening up the couching couch to the world and bringing everyone in on this conversation
around this work. We’re here to showcase the heart and soul of authentic leadership, and to
inspire more open conversations around what we consider the most important part of
entrepreneurship - the emotional struggle, and hopefully opening up some hearts along the way.
We are extremely grateful that you have taken the time to be with us, and look forward to this
journey ahead with you. Now, on to our conversation.
Being CEO of a startup is really hard. It’s lonely, there’s long hours, there’s constant demands,
and there is no manual. This is why Jerry helped to create the CEO boot camp. Join us February
25th through March 1st at our 2015 Winter CEO boot camp in Winter Park, Colorado. You'll
connect with 20 other startup leaders and learn what it means to be a leader. For more
information, go to Reboot.io/Bootcamps.
"Between stimulus and response, there is a space. In that space, lies our freedom and power to
choose our response. In our response, lies our growth and freedom." That quote is often
attributed to Viktor Frankl, although the author is unknown. This quote seemed to fit for our
guest today, Joseph Chura. Joseph’s an innovator always on the move. In the last few years, he
started not one, but two companies that employ nearly 100 people combined and yet he feels a
constant drive for more. The drive is so strong, it overcomes even his best wishes to be present;
especially at home with his wife and kids.
Why is the drive, the itch to not sit still, so strong? What’s he running towards? Or perhaps
running from? In this conversation, Jerry and Joseph explore why he feels compelled to run, to
continually produce and why mindfulness is about so much more than meditation. It’s about
expanding the space between stimulus and response.
Jerry Colonna: Tell me a little bit more about the company. It’s really two companies that
you’re working with and then we’ll go into what it is that you wanted to talk
through today.
Joseph Chura: Sure. So we have two companies, like you mentioned. Launch Digital
Marketing, which was established in the latter part of 2010. We didn’t really
incorporate till 2011 though and Launch creates – essentially we started off as a
Search Engine Optimization company, but then quickly moved in to building
websites, then SEM, SEO, advanced analytics, software development and just
really anything that has to do with online advertising. We work with a ton of
different verticals but we found a particular niche in the automotive space
particularly because my background is in automotive. I was at Ford Motor
Company for 10 years then actually was a car dealer for a few years and I then
created what’s called the BDC department for a couple of dealerships in the
Chicago area. So we created another company called Dealer Inspire; different
ownership, different business model and that’s more of a, you know, we kind of

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bootstrapped that company because it’s more software development and more
of your traditional – I’d like to say is your Silicon Valley type startup where it’s
a lot of engineering, less sales but more engineering and so forth. So, both
companies have taken off and we have close to 100 employees combined.
We’re based outside the Chicago area and we just really love what we do and
innovate every day.
Jerry Colonna: I want to be clear, you are CEO of both companies?
Joseph Chura: I am, yeah.
Jerry Colonna: This might actually touch upon our issue today.
Joseph Chura: [Laughs] Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: Well what is it that you wanted to talk through?
Joseph Chura: Well, I think, you know, the CEO retreat was awesome. I mean, it was life-
changing for me personally. It introduced me to meditation which I’ve since
grown to like. I wouldn’t say "love" yet because it’s a tough practice to really
get. [Laughs]
Jerry Colonna: Oh, yeah.
Joseph Chura: In theory, everything sounds perfect with it, but it’s just hard. I would say it’s
hard, even the 10 minutes is like the hardest 10 minutes of my day. But –
Jerry Colonna: Yeah.
Joseph Chura: – it does give you that feeling that I just love. Just relaxation for brief periods
throughout the given day.
Jerry Colonna: Wow, just a word on meditation; the thing you have to remember is that we
don’t meditate for the effect that it has on the [Unclear 0:05:22]. We meditate
for the rest of the day and so as you just said, you know, the whole point is to
increase your capacity, to notice your own mind, notice what’s actually going
on; by the way, which can be a really disturbing experience. It can make you
kind of crazy – [Laughs]
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: Right, when you see you just how tumultuous your mind is and how crazy it can
be but the whole goal is to increase your capacity to notice so that you
effectively increase your capacity to choose what kind of experience you’re
going to have. So, you’re online at Starbucks and the person in front of you
can’t get their act together and they’re taking forever to place the order, in that

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moment you have a choice. Do you get pissed off or do you take a deep breath
and see the humor in the whole thing? Right?
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: Most of us don’t even choose. Most of us just react and that’s what meditation
is really about. It’s not necessarily – even though at times it can produce a
feeling of calm even in the moment which is lovely, but the thing I am most
interested in is giving you the skills to make sure that you can just – "Okay,
sales report just came in and sales suck."
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: I’m going to choose how I respond in that moment.
Joseph Chura: Yeah. No, totally and I’ve had to really think through the internal benefits of it
and it is really analogous to me to, you know, again the big part of meditation is
being present which is something I’m not very good at because I’m obsessed
with work and innovation and just, you know, building these companies and so
forth, which I’m sure we’re going to talk about. But I really have thought
through the benefits of it and I think about the times I’m happiest in my life and
it’s really when I’m present in that and that has to do with, you know, if – for
example, I’m at a concert, right? I'm not really thinking about much else except
your experience at that exact moment and then when I thought about that, how
true that is and when you’re truly there for your children, when you’re present,
at those moments; or you’re just having fun with friends and you’re not thinking
about everything else. I think that’s what meditation allows me to get to is those
escapes where I can really be present. Which quite frankly I am horrible at that
but I think since the CEO retreat, I have been introduced to in a way where I
wouldn’t have been otherwise and I have internalized the reasoning for it using
cool, you know, apps and reading Dan Harris’s book 10% Happier and your
stuff, your blogs and so forth. It’s just really helped to kind of reaffirm the, you
know, the reason for it really.
Jerry Colonna: Yeah. So I’m noticing something too. You said a couple of times how you’re
really terrible at something.
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: So just hold on to that for a moment. There is a really common phenomenon
that happens – don’t worry, I’m not making you cry yet.
[Laughter]
Jerry Colonna: Notice the frequency which you want to judge yourself. Notice without judging
even that. There’s a phenomena, I remember going to a meditation class one

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time and after the first five minutes or so, the instructor said, "Okay, now who
here in the room spent the entire time thinking about what a lousy meditator
they are?" And we all raised our hands. We are kind of programmed in our
society for two different functions. One is constant self-criticism – constant. We
use it, we tell ourselves that we use it to drive ourselves for better and better
performance but really what we are using it for is to push away whatever
experience that we’re having right now because we say to ourselves, "Okay, the
experience I’m having right now kind of sucks, and somewhere in the future
will be better." Or if we’re fortunate, we remember the time in the past when it
was better. That’s the other thing that the society is kind of geared towards,
which is past and future, past and future, past and future, past and future. So
you’re right. You’re at the concert, you’re enjoying it, it’s the present moment
and then here is the way the society kind of kicks in. "Ding!"
Joseph Chura: Uh-huh.
Jerry Colonna: Right? You get a little text on your phone and what do you do? You reach into
the pocket, you pull out the phone, you look at the text, and now you’ve just
left.
Joseph Chura: That’s right.
Jerry Colonna: Right? And even though the text feels present, it’s actually not. It’s kind of like
a message from the past or a message from the future.
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: It has nothing to do with the present.
Joseph Chura: Yeah, good point.
Jerry Colonna: Everything that we do in our society is kind of geared towards that. So the fact
that it’s not a muscle that’s well developed, this staying present thing. Give
yourself a break and I think you’re right to link this to the experience of trying
to balance everything that you have got going and noticing around that. I want
to catch that tendency to lump it all into this "I suck" category.
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: Which is that other phenomenon going on. So – but I interrupted you. You were
describing this sort of journey since the boot camp and tell me more.
Joseph Chura: Yeah. So I think, when I left the boot camp, I came back with just really
analyzing myself, identifying, you know, my coworkers still say this today with
the green, yellow and red sticks.

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Jerry Colonna: Mmm.
Joseph Chura: In fact my – I have them right here.
Jerry Colonna: Somebody stole them, damn it!
Joseph Chura: Yeah, I have them right here in my hands.
Jerry Colonna: [Laughs]
Joseph Chura: Well my admin cleaned my desk – thanks, Taylor! But I –
Jerry Colonna: [Laughs]
Joseph Chura: I have them here and people say, you know, "Stay green my friend. You know,
when good things happen and that’s kind of just the whole office knows about
it.
Jerry Colonna: Ah, that’s great!
Joseph Chura: Yeah, it really is and just understanding kind of where you’re at. So, when I left
the boot camp, I came back with just – I felt like refreshed and, you know, since
then it’s been several months. I think like, you just tend to go back in your old
ways and I’m continually obsessed with growing the business with innovation
and technology and all the things that may sound good on paper but I’m still
finding it very hard to be present and to let go of the ego as much as possible.
To not get so, you know, to not be so reactive to things which as much as I try
and be cognizant of that, I am.
Jerry Colonna: Mm-hmm.
Joseph Chura: I really just want to continually to work on that and almost try and take myself
back to the place at the boot camp the feeling that I had when I left. I think
that’s the biggest thing that I struggle with is that, you know, at that point, I had
a mission and that mission since faded a little bit and that’s why this is a really
good timing for this session.
Jerry Colonna: What was the mission?
Joseph Chura: To let go of just being the guy that we had talked about in that session and I’ve,
you know, I listened to your other podcast and I’ve heard echoes of the other
CEOs, you know, saying the same things or feeling the same things and I think
it’s beneficial. I like know why it’s beneficial for one, being more present with
my family, being, you know, more present in, you know, my every day work
role versus being very reactive or, you know, not being the full self I could be.
It’s just a challenge how to get there.

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Jerry Colonna: Mm-hmm.
Joseph Chura: How to get back there, I should say.
Jerry Colonna: What you're seeing is that you have this tendency towards obsessively thinking
about and working on the business; is that right?
Joseph Chura: Correct. Even when I’m at home with my children or playing with them, I can’t
help but thinking about new ideas or technology or innovations that we can
create. All of a sudden, it triggers something and then I’m to my phone and I’m
taken away from that present moment and it really hits home when I’m not
home. When I’m travelling, when I’m at work and I see something on TV, or I
see kids at the airport, you know, and then I’m like, "Oh, I miss my children" or
my family and then I go back home, and it’s like the whole thing happens over
again.
Jerry Colonna: But even in that moment, when you’re brought up and it’s made visceral for
you, "Oh, I miss my family" despite that experience when you go home, and
there you are, and they’re right there, you leave.
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: And you identified the thought is like, this creativity, this innovation, this new
idea that pops in and that – and I imagine things like getting an email or a text
message or some crisis might draw you away.
Joseph Chura: Correct.
Jerry Colonna: So, the first thing I’m going to say in response is – and there is this other thing
going on, which is that you have a wish to return to sort of more of a green state
versus the red, yellow, green that we teach at the boot camp. It’s a short hand
way of identifying my internal state and really communicating to somebody
else, where we are. Yellow being sort of in a warning zone and green being in a
really open and a live place and red being out of capacity and really stressed. So
the first thing that comes to mind is actually to remind you of something that I
just said a few minutes ago, as it relates to meditation. That is, notice the
capacity to be judgmental and critical about your inability to stay calm. Notice
the capacity or the tendency to criticize, to put yourself into a more stressed
state. Right? "Oh, what a terrible father I am!" "Oh, what a terrible husband I
am!" "God! Didn’t I learn anything at that damn boot camp?" Notice how
quickly the mind starts to create that storyline that "You’re terrible! You suck!"
The reason I want you to notice that is that notice how it doesn’t do what you
want it to do. I’m speaking to that part of your mind, which is like taking a
rolled up newspaper and slapping you on the nose like a dog. "Stop peeing on

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the carpet!" It actually doesn’t work. It just makes the dog pee more. I know it’s
a strange metaphor.
Joseph Chura: [Laughs]
Jerry Colonna: Right? So noticing the self-criticism, there is a relationship between the self-
criticism. Now watch this. How do you feel when you get a brilliant idea that’s
so exciting that you want to text it immediately? How do you feel about
yourself?
Joseph Chura: Great.
Jerry Colonna: Yes. So our human tendency, this sounds simplistic, but it’s important to point
out. A human tendency is to avoid feelings that make us feel like crap, or
situations that make us feel like crap and to move towards situations that make
us feel good; right? So, there is this running self-criticism behind the scenes.
"I’m not such a good meditator." "Oh I’m going to get on the phone with Jerry."
"Jerry might even criticize me." "Oh, what’s happened to you Joe?" Right? All
of this nonsense and of course, your mind is going to gravitate towards that
which makes it feel better. In fact, sometimes we even gravitate towards crisis
because it makes us feel better by solving a crisis.
Joseph Chura: Makes sense.
Jerry Colonna: Right?
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: Because sitting there, being suburban Dad – how old are the kids?
Joseph Chura: Two-and-a-half, four-and-a-half, and then I have a 16-year old too.
Jerry Colonna: Right. So do you ever feel – especially with the teenager, did you ever feel
completely helpless?
Joseph Chura: Oh, yeah.
Jerry Colonna: Oh, yeah!
[Laughter]
Jerry Colonna: Right? The two-and-a-half year old, when they were one and they were
teething, and there was nothing you could do? Right, so of course we’re going
to move away from situations that make us feel bad and we’re going to move
towards situations that make us feel better. So understanding that that’s going

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on, the reason I say that is I want you to rest, be gentle with yourself. Don’t add
to the torture by telling me what a terrible person you are. Okay?
Joseph Chura: Mm-hmm.
Jerry Colonna: That’s why this notion of mindfulness – forget meditation or anything like that,
this notion of mindfulness, consciousness and awareness; that is why we use the
term, "Practice". Here’s a dirty little secret Joe. You’re never going to achieve
it. You’re just going to be moving towards it. You’re never going to be – not
even His Holiness, the Dalai Lama wakes up and is 100% mindful, 100% of the
time. It doesn’t happen and remembering that is really important because we are
an achievement-oriented society and we think that unless we achieve it, we
suck. Okay?
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: So the truth is, it’s the movement towards that creates the benefit. I once had a
meditation instructor teach me, if you spend 20 minutes in meditation, or if you
sit down for 20 minutes for meditation and spend 19 minutes will-gathering and
wake up in the last minute, you have had a successful meditation session,
because you woke up. Our goal isn’t to get you to always be present in every
moment of your life. Our goal is to increase the capacity for you to notice when
you’re not. So again, you get to choose.
Joseph Chura: Yeah, that makes sense.
Jerry Colonna: Right?
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: So you are at the concert, and you set an intention to enjoy the concert, you
could do something really freaking radical. You could turn off your phone. Like
"What? I can’t say it, I can’t."
[Laughter]
Joseph Chura: It sounds so ridiculous how hard that is, but it’s –
Jerry Colonna: Right.
Joseph Chura: – in almost every moment of my life, it’s so there and addicting and is like, you
know, you want to reach for it right now.
Jerry Colonna: Right, right because every time I say "Phone", there is a little dopamine hit
going on in your brain –

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Joseph Chura: Right.
Jerry Colonna: – going, "Check it! Check it! Check it!" Right?
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: But the truth is, Joe, you're in your thirties, right?
Joseph Chura: Yes.
Jerry Colonna: So there was a time in your life when you were unavailable by phone.
Joseph Chura: [Laughs] That’s true.
Jerry Colonna: Right? Now, our kids will never know that feeling.
Joseph Chura: Right.
Jerry Colonna: Right? But there was a time in your life, when you got a whole lot of things
done, and had a whole lot of fun and a whole lot of pain and you were
unavailable by phone. It doesn’t feel like that anymore.
Joseph Chura: No.
Jerry Colonna: Noticing that is the first step. Noticing how drawn in it is. Noticing how
powerful the tendency is.
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: Okay?
Joseph Chura: Yeah, and I think that’s where – that’s where it comes down to. Setting the
companies up to a point where I feel like I can be away and I think for Launch
Digital Marketing it’s gotten significantly better. Hiring the right people and
having a support team there that I know that not all the weight is on my
shoulders anymore.
Jerry Colonna: Okay, I want you to just pause on that.
Joseph Chura: Sure.
Jerry Colonna: I’m not going to make you cry. I know, having come to the boot camp, you
know that when I say pause, it means cry.
Joseph Chura: Okay.

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Jerry Colonna: But I just want you to recognize what you just said. Remember the three things
that a CEO is responsible for. Right?
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: The three things are build – hold and maintain the vision, build and maintain the
team, and then give them the resources they need to succeed.
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: Notice that what your just describing, you said you’re building and have built a
stronger team, and a funny thing has happened. It’s made your job easier.
Joseph Chura: Correct.
Jerry Colonna: Right.
Joseph Chura: Yes, right.
Jerry Colonna: So from that perspective, even though you are still struggling with the balance
and the obsessions and the concerns and the emotions associated with that,
notice that one of the most important tools – yes, mindfulness meditation is a
powerful tool. Let’s leave it aside for a moment. An even greater tool is
building the team and then equally important, trusting them and letting them do
the job you hired them to do.
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: And making sure that they have the resources that they can then succeed.
Joseph Chura: Yeah. So the funny thing is, as soon as we got Launch to that point, I look at the
timeline of my life, and that’s when we kind of created a new company, Dealer
Inspire and [Laughs] my fear –
Jerry Colonna: Ah.
Joseph Chura: My fear is that –
Jerry Colonna: Yes.
Joseph Chura: – it’s a good and bad thing, right? I’m fantastically blessed that we have two
good companies, and profitable, great employees. We were able to create jobs
for – all that stuff is fantastic. So, I look at it and I say, "Wow, the time is now
though, to capitalize on creating even more things." Because you know, if I fast
forward to 10 or 15 years from now, we’re in a very unique state in terms of
technology and the ability to create. Is that going to be there in the long term

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and that’s why, you know, I can’t say that even if I put people in charge of
Launch, Dealer Inspire. There’s going to be, for whatever reason, and I think
it’s just me. I’m going to want to create something else and then fall into the
same trap. So –
Jerry Colonna: Yes, yes. So pause.
Joseph Chura: Yes.
Jerry Colonna: Okay? And a – some woman said to me, they hate when I do that. I apologize.
Joseph Chura: No, it’s fine.
Jerry Colonna: But the reason I do it is, I want to create a kind of cognitive dissonance because
I can feel in my body, I can feel you getting amped up and going –
Joseph Chura: Yes.
Jerry Colonna: – and going, and going. So, I think that there’s two emotions at play behind this.
In a sense, you asked about the obsession and then you, somewhat tongue-in-
cheek, not really tongue-in-cheek, but somewhat with some self-awareness, and
humor, recognized that once you got Launch settled, and in a good, comfortable
place, it started happening again.
Joseph Chura: [Laughs]
Jerry Colonna: Now, I’m going to be honest with you. Not that I’m not honest with other guys,
but I’ going to be especially honest here. I relate to that feeling. Right? So this
podcast is all part of Reboot. Reboot is a new company. I had a great life, Joe. I
had a great life coaching and coaching. Why the heck did I help develop those
boot camps? Why the heck have I now done this new company that can – I can’t
help it, it starts to drive right – new ideas, new ideas, new ideas, new ideas.
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: So I really relate to that. I think there’s two emotions going on here. I want to
bring your attention back to something. Remember when you first thought of
Dealer Inspire?
Joseph Chura: Mm-hmm.
Jerry Colonna: What was the feeling?
Joseph Chura: Of opportunity and excitement and really overall the ability to change what had
currently existed in the space.

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Jerry Colonna: What was the – what was the excitement? It was the excitement about the
potential to change things?
Joseph Chura: I saw an obvious solution to a complex problem.
Jerry Colonna: Okay and remember what we were saying before? How does it make you feel
about yourself when you stumble upon, or have that insight, that Eureka
moment, seeing an opportunity out there?
Joseph Chura: It’s one of the best feelings in the world that I've ever felt.
Jerry Colonna: Right. How does it make you feel about yourself?
Joseph Chura: Fantastic.
Jerry Colonna: "I’m a genius!"
Joseph Chura: Yeah [Laughs].
Jerry Colonna: "I’m a genius!"
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: Right? It’s a beautiful feeling. It’s a gorgeous feeling. Okay? And so there is a
seductive quality to that feeling. Now there’s another side to this and I’m going
to, for the sake of this point, call that feeling "love" because it’s a kind of
creative expression, and it’s about the wonder and it’s about excitement. It’s
about passion, it’s about this gorgeous feeling of connection with the world and
seeing – it’s like when the Eureka moment happens, it’s like you can see five
chess moves ahead.
Joseph Chura: Mm-hmm.
Jerry Colonna: Right?
Joseph Chura: Yeah, that’s exactly right [Laughs]
Jerry Colonna: It’s like, "Damn! If I just do this, this and this –" right?
Joseph Chura: Let’s go now! Let’s do it!
Jerry Colonna: Let’s do it now. Right, right.
Joseph Chura: Yeah.

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Jerry Colonna: Now there’s a corollary feeling to that and here and let’s explore it. What
happens if you did nothing?
Joseph Chura: Oh, it would just eat at me.
Jerry Colonna: Why?
Joseph Chura: For a few reasons. One is, I feel like if you have the ability to do something and
you don’t do it, you’re doing a disservice to yourself and to the world
essentially.
Jerry Colonna: Oh. That’s a pretty negative feeling.
Joseph Chura: [Laughs]
Jerry Colonna: So Joe, you’ve got a lot of potential, my friend. You’d better live up to your
potential. Okay, you just bit your lip.
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: You’ve heard that one before, haven’t you?
Joseph Chura: Yeah, I mean yeah, I think I know where you’re going with this but –
Jerry Colonna: I don’t know where I’m going, I hope you do. Where am I going Joe?
Joseph Chura: Well, I mean it all stems back to, you know, your upbringing, your childhood
and, you know, things that have happened to make you want to be the best you
can be, or the opposite of something you have seen. So, I think in my case it
wasn’t someone pushing me to be the better person, it was watching someone
make a lot of mistakes that I wanted to do the complete opposite. And I know –
Jerry Colonna: Keep going.
Joseph Chura: And I know that for me personally, the best feeling or one of the best feelings I
have is being successful and I’m not saying that monetarily wise, just –
Jerry Colonna: No.
Joseph Chura: – taking something from nothing and doing the complete opposite of what I’ve
seen from a father figure so to speak; my father not a father figure. It's my
father, kind of what happened was, you know, he had an opportunity as a
president of a company and he had some things in life happen that he then took
the complete opposite path that I think he should have. You know, he since
passed away from his lifestyle choices and I look at that and I just – it's baffling
to me and I want to be the opposite of that every single day.

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Jerry Colonna: Yeah, just slow down because now we hit it. [Silent pause] There is the love,
there is the affirmation that began and then there is the counter-feeling, "I don’t
want to be him." I want you to take a breath right now because I know you are
not breathing.
Joseph Chura: [Laughs]
Jerry Colonna: Yeah and the fear, if that’s the word, isn’t it? That if you don’t seize this
opportunity, who are you going to end up like?
Joseph Chura: Exactly.
Jerry Colonna: Right. So, the affirmation in a sense pushes away what is always there.
Remember before I said about that incessant voice of self-criticism?
Joseph Chura: Yes.
Jerry Colonna: Okay, how long have you carried the fear that you are going to end up like your
father?
Joseph Chura: Since I was 16 years old.
Jerry Colonna: Right, what happened at 16?
Joseph Chura: My parents got a divorce and my dad just –
Jerry Colonna: Fell apart?
Joseph Chura: Fell apart, yeah.
Jerry Colonna: So, so driven, "Driven" is the word, to not be your father that a big source of
internal affirmations, of internal feeling good about yourself has become
external success. Interestingly, you made the point, it's not even about money.
Money sometimes is a proxy for that–
Joseph Chura: Mm-hmm.
Jerry Colonna: – but it's really about that affirmation. It's like you did it, you did it and it
doesn’t have to even come from anybody else. It's like external to the inner you
coming from you.
Joseph Chura: Yeah and that’s probably why – well, that is why I feel like that even after
Dealer Inspire and let's say you get that rolling, you want to create the next big
thing because I want that feeling again. I want that –

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Jerry Colonna: What you don’t want is the other feeling.
Joseph Chura: Correct and I like – and with that, as you know, having successful businesses,
you start to get praise and external recognition and I feel I probably – I don’t
want to say a negative term again but almost an un-needed feeling I know that I
don’t – do I necessarily need that praise? No, but I feel like I do. Like, do I
really need it? No. I mean, I look at what we've created and it's pretty exciting.
Someone – a co-worker was asking me yesterday; they are like, "Do you wake
up and like, look what you have created?" And I'm like, "No, I don’t. I just
wake up and like let's go." And you don’t even pause to think about it and
there's a lot of reasons for that but I think it's just – at the end of the day, I want
to look back and be the opposite of what my father was.
Jerry Colonna: And what I think you are finding is that the strategy you used, starting at about
16 has its limitations. Not only do you want to be the opposite of what your
father was, and this is perceptual because we don’t actually know what he was
like, but you want to be the opposite of what you perceived him to be. You want
to not feel like you are becoming him or you are him.
Joseph Chura: That's right.
Jerry Colonna: And there's a limit in the strategy that you've deployed and the limit is, "I
successfully launched Launch, I get it to the place where it is functional and my
mind obsesses –" and that was your term and that's where I knew that there was
something here, "– excessively goes to the next idea."
Joseph Chura: Yes.
Jerry Colonna: And what's the fear – let's assume that Dealer Inspire is successful. Now, you've
got two successful companies. What's the fear?
Joseph Chura: That it won't be, one day.
Jerry Colonna: What will satisfy the fear? How many successful businesses do you have to
launch before the fear is no longer there?
Joseph Chura: I think the problem is not that, it's just defining the word "Success". It's like,
what does that look like and what does that mean because it never seems like it's
– unless you are having an exit or something like that where you have closure
and that's part of the reason why I'm constantly involved in both this. I feel like
I need to control that.
Jerry Colonna: Control what? The exit?
Joseph Chura: No, the [Crosstalk 00:35:55] failure.

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Jerry Colonna: The definition of success?
Joseph Chura: Yeah, I can't – I mean, you need to – or you know, the thing that needs to have
continual care, I feel or you know, then can turn in the other way like you know,
most businesses do. I mean the odds of creating a successful business in five
years is very low as you know and ten years, even lower. So, it's not – you
know, the definition of success changes – or not the definition but, you know,
the degree at which something is successful changes often.
Jerry Colonna: Well, I think it's touching upon yet another observation which is that the more
you create, the more that you have that has this vital role within you to serve
this sort of need inside of you. The higher the stakes become and the higher are
the stakes, the more tenuous the success feels, the more at risk we are and the
more fear we have.
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: I think that that phenomena is at play for you here and it is perhaps behind some
of the obsession and I think that there is – I worry that there is this other
phenomena which is – which, it strikes me that you have launched a second
business after Launch seemed to be so calm. And I wondered if when Dealer
Inspire get's calm, if you are going to launch a third business and then a fourth.
Joseph Chura: Right.
Jerry Colonna: You see where I am headed?
Joseph Chura: Yeah, exactly and then the cycle of being present, of being there in the family
like when would it end? I don’t know.
Jerry Colonna: Right because what is it that you are truly chasing? You are chasing a ghost.
Joseph Chura: Right.
Jerry Colonna: You are chasing your father.
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: Or chasing him away. Okay Joe, this is going to be hard, what I am going to ask
you to think about and you might even consider meditating on this. What if you
actually invited him in?
Joseph Chura: [Silent pause] That's very interesting. [Laughs] Yeah, I would have to think
about that.

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Jerry Colonna: I'm not saying you have to do it but there's a part of him inside of you because
he is part of your character structure, not the true man who he was –
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: – but your experience of him. Remember when we sit in meditation, it's to learn
to become friendly with everything, to be present to everything; not just the
good stuff but really the uncomfortable stuff. See, I don’t think you launching in
a serial entrepreneur fashion, multiple businesses is the problem. I think the
problem is, you using the launch of multiple businesses as a way to deflect from
the fear and the pain of the fear of becoming your father. And in that moment
and in that pattern, you disconnect not only from your present life but from your
kids.
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: Tell me something Joe, what was the hardest part of your father's life falling
apart? What was the hardest part for you as a 16-year old and a 17-year old and
18-year old?
Joseph Chura: I think then, I would have had a different answer than I do now. So I'll say the
answer now and I'll think back to then. I think now, it's looking at the massive
opportunity that he had and let go and not realizing that one of the best revenges
in life, if he needed to take revenge on the divorce or so forth, is success. So
that's the thing that most people –
Jerry Colonna: Why was it painful for you?
Joseph Chura: It was painful for me now looking back because I think a lot of people aren’t –
I'm just going to say, "blessed" with those kind of opportunities where you are
handed down a business to, you know, from a father to a son. So, his dad
handed him down a business and he completely blew that opportunity to take it
to the next level and since he's passed away and the business actually has failed.
It's really hard for me now to see that it was super-obvious that he had a great
opportunity and he blew it.
Jerry Colonna: Okay, so what was the painful part for you then?
Joseph Chura: The painful part for me then was him – I mean a big thing was alcoholism and I
mean secondary to that was just the way that he would – put it this way, when I
would see his van when I came home as a child, I wouldn’t even want to come
home. I think that was the hardest thing for me back the is just not even wanting
to be there because of the way he treated me and the way –
Jerry Colonna: How did he treat you?

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Joseph Chura: Really poorly. I mean just in almost every sense emotionally and physically,
you know, not good.
Jerry Colonna: So, he was a terrible father even when he was present.
Joseph Chura: He had his moments of being not terrible, I'll say that and it's hard to talk about
your father especially someone that's passed away like that but the reality was, I
don’t remember too many of those good moments. I just remember the bad ones
and I don’t remember him being present. I don’t remember many good things
that he actually helped me improve or guide my life in any positive way and just
really left me with resentment and not understanding of –
Jerry Colonna: What do you want your kids to think about you?
Joseph Chura: That I'm the greatest father in the world, really, I mean very similar to what any
father or any – what I would perceive to be a normal father would want for their
children to think about them. I want them to want me around to be there and the
relationship that I have with my 16-year old is very much like that. Even though
we haven’t lived together since she was a baby, we're very, very close and very
much the opposite of the relationship that I had with my father. Now, my two
youngest ones, it's a different dynamic because I do see them every day and it's
– I love that. It's the being present that I fear is that even though I am there
physically, I'm not there mentally. Like, we touched on and it's something I
want to continually strive to be better at.
Jerry Colonna: You know, one thing occurs to me; not unlike when we were talking about
meditation before, I noticed a difference between you as a father and what you
have described as your own father already. So, this big, implicit fear that you
have had which is that you are going to become him, can you notice already that
you are not him?
Joseph Chura: I can but, do you know, I mean I'm sure you've realized this that with you're
born with certain traits in life and sometimes you have to fight against those to
get away from them. Like, whether it's alcoholism or just being an organized
person or not being an organized person or you know, all of these things happen
to you whether you know it or not because it happened earlier on in your life
and you are born with them. So, I see – and my fear is that they can come back
and that's why I am constantly fight them and I am – because it's like you're –
you almost feel like you are always gravitating towards a certain way and you
are fighting that constantly to try and get away from that person or being that
person. Whereas, I think you know, I appreciate your point saying I'm not him;
my fear is that one day I could be an alcoholic, one day I could do this. I'm not,
but I have to fight against those feelings and that tendency towards those
behaviors and –
Jerry Colonna: You have a very powerful tool –

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Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: – and that tool is choice.
Joseph Chura: Yes.
Jerry Colonna: Carl Jung said, "I am not what has happened to me, I am what I choose to
become." Now, you know me, I always teach this being so. The reality is, there
is a part of you, just like there is a part of me, that's obsessive. The reality is that
there is a part of you that could go down that path of maniacal, use a business to
create self-affirmation to ward off the feelings of self-loathing that are rooted in
your childhood. What was it you hated about your father? Perhaps the way he
made you feel about you. Certainly, the way he seemed to feel about you.
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: So your behavior makes sense. The reason why I want to give you the gift of
saying "Your behavior makes sense" is because I know that the process of
pushing away the feeling doesn’t make it go away. You noticed, you’ve got two
businesses and you're still obsessively worried about whether or not you are
going to end up becoming your father.
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: Okay and the irony is, in that worry, you start to exhibit the very same behavior
that you are trying to disown in the first place; not being present for your
children. Another quote from Carl Jung, "Denying the shadow and pushing it
away is like trying to get rid of a headache with a beheading." It doesn’t work.
Okay?
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: What you want to do in this instance is take it in and welcome it in. Not because
you are going to necessarily forgive him, I'm not so sure about that but by
welcoming him in, you can see the difference between the man you are today
and the man he was then. How old was he when you were 16? 40s?
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: Okay. You are not that man and you are giving yourself the choices. You
already have a better relationship with your 16-year old than he had with his.
Joseph Chura: Yeah.

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Jerry Colonna: And you have the gift of language and the gift of self-awareness and with those
gifts comes the responsibility of choosing. How do you want to be? What kind
of man do you want to be? When we make the things that are unconscious to us
conscious, we give ourselves a shot at being in control of our lives or certainly
directing parts of our life. So this process of seeing the relationship between
denying your father and the need to launch businesses, the need to check your
cell phone, the need to check email, the need to even generate even new ideas.
Seeing the relationship between the two, that's where the choice lies. I don’t
care if you launch another business. I care if you launch a business pretending
that you are launching a business merely because you are a creative guy.
Because that then denies what's really going on for you and puts you in danger
of reenacting your father's life. Does that make sense?
Joseph Chura: Yeah. I think the other big part to that is truly figuring out how to be present
without and letting things go. Like for example, as motivating as this is, I'm
going to go home tonight, be with my kids, play with them and I don’t want to
think about this stuff. I don’t want to think about work or an email or an
emergency or –
Jerry Colonna: So, think about it. That's what I'm saying –
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: – and then make a choice. You can go to the concert and turn off the phone, you
can walk into your house and hand your phone to your wife. That's a choice or
you can choose to keep it in your pocket and keep it on 'vibrate' so that you
know even without looking at it, when the text message comes in. That's a
choice.
Joseph Chura: But the monster in your head, do you just tell it to shut up?
Jerry Colonna: No.
Joseph Chura: And when you are thinking, so even if I didn’t have the device, I could see
myself still being like –
Jerry Colonna: All right, what is your wife's first name?
Joseph Chura: Heather.
Jerry Colonna: Does she know that we are having this conversation?
Joseph Chura: No.
Jerry Colonna: Okay, I want you to have a conversation with her about this conversation.

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Joseph Chura: Okay.
Jerry Colonna: And I want you to ask for her help and here's what she's going to do. Heather, I
got to tell you, I'm loving being here with you and the kids right; now and in
this moment, my mind just left. The reason I want you to be able to say that is
that that's the process. Remember I said "19 minutes of a 20-minute meditation
session" the last minute you wake up.
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: It is unrealistic to expect that you are just going to change behavior because you
went to a boot camp for one weekend or we had one conversation and that’s it.
What you need is to retrain yourself and enlisting your spouse, who by the way,
knows from the look in your eye when you are no longer there.
Joseph Chura: Yeah, it's true.
Jerry Colonna: Right. So, even if you haven’t noticed it, give her permission to say, "Joe, Joe,
Joe, come back, right here! Right here now. Give me your phone!" Or "Joe, tell
me the idea that you just had."
Joseph Chura: So that crazy thing about this is, I think – I know, probably through this whole
process. I have trained her to almost do the same thing. So, it's something that
we – she might do it in a different way with watching TV or reading a magazine
or on the iPad but you know, and that's obviously something we have to talk
through. I would definitely take that advice.
Jerry Colonna: It is something that we can help each other around. It's the kind of community,
it's the kind of way that – I'll give you a version of this. Earlier this week, I was
really in the red. I was really, really stressed out and personal stuff going on and
it was really weighing heavily on my mind and in a Reboot team meeting, I said
to Ali, Khalid and Dan, who are now part of Reboot, hey, this is what's going on
and this is what I'm feeling and they were incredibly supportive in each of their
own ways. But there was as funny thing that happened on Tuesday and that is
that I was going to give a talk at our company and Dan texted me and said,
"Hey, I'm going to be at your office in a few minutes, do you want a cup of
tea?" And I said, "Yes." And then I waited a few minutes and said, "And could
you bring me a cookie?" And that little act of bringing me a cookie, even though
I asked for it, was an expression of care and concern that made me feel seen.
Joseph Chura: Mm-hmm.
Jerry Colonna: And it's just simply – so those red, yellow, green sticks are a powerful
mechanism of being able to say, "Hey, I'm having a hard time right now with
staying present." I want to encourage you to use the tool of connection with

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someone that you love and who loves you to help keep you grounded. This is
what we did at the boot camp. We caught each other, we work with each other.
Joseph Chura: Yeah.
Jerry Colonna: This is the power of being in a relationship with another. Joe, do you really want
to go do email right now? Really Joe is that what you need or do you want to go
play Legos on the floor? And if you really can't be present, then go do the email
and then close the laptop and come back.
Joseph Chura: Yeah, that's a great point.
Jerry Colonna: Satisfy the impulse, keep a notebook, write the ideas down in a notebook and
then send the email. The reason why is because it's not interactive because the
minute you send an email, what happens, you look at the inbox and you see all
the emails and you start answering them and you are lost.
Joseph Chura: Yeah or you are thinking about someone's response back to your idea or email.
Jerry Colonna: Exactly. So, these are a couple of small tools. The basic thing though, is to
increase the awareness of what's actually going on for you. What need internally
are you trying to meet by departing from your life in that moment and then you
bring it back.
Joseph Chura: I am going to try that.
Jerry Colonna: You are welcome to email me. In fact, I would be delighted if you emailed me
and kept me up to date and let me know how it's going for you.
Joseph Chura: You got it. It's my pleasure, it's great to see you and talk with you again and
look forward to communicating in the future.
Jerry Colonna: You too, and I want you to play this weekend with those kids.
Joseph Chura: I will do that.
Jerry Colonna: All right, be well my friend.
So that's it for our conversation today. You know, a lot was covered in this episode, from links,
to books, to quotes, to images. So we went ahead and compiled all that, and put it on our site at
Reboot.io/Podcast. If you would like to be a guest on the show, you can find out about that on
our site as well.
I'm really grateful that you took the time to listen. If you enjoyed the show and you want to get
all the latest episodes as we release them, head over to iTunes and subscribe and while you're

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there, it would be great if you could leave us a review letting us know how the show affected
you. So thank you again for listening and I really look forward to future conversations together.
[Singing] "How long till my soul gets it right?
Did any human being ever reach that kind of light?
I call on the resting soul of Galileo,
King of night vision, King of insight."
[End of transcript 00:58:25]