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                        ebinar
                        An education service
                        of the American Society of
                        Business Publication Editors




                Bridging the
                DigitalSkills
                Training Gap
                          for business-to-business editors

                                              I


                                      June 2010
                                              I




                   American Society of
                Business Publication Editors
W
www.ASBPE.org




Research
                               ebinar
                               An education service
                               of the American Society of
                               Business Publication Editors




Sponsors
American Society of                Medill School/                 Media Management Center
Business Publication Editors       Northwestern University        Northwestern University
214 N. Hale St.                    301 Fisk Hall                  304 Fisk Hall
Wheaton, IL 60187                  1845 Sheridan Road             1845 Sheridan Road
phone: (630) 510-4588              Evanston, IL 60208             Evanston, IL 60208
fax: (630) 5110-4501               phone: (847) 467-1882          phone: (847) 491-4900
info@asbpe.org                     www.medill.northwestern.edu/   www.mediamanagementcenter.
www.asbpe.org                                                      org
W
www.ASBPE.org




Speakers
                           ebinar
                           An education service
                           of the American Society of
                           Business Publication Editors




Abe Peck, director of business-to-business          Mary Slepicka, group content director,
communication, professor emeritus in                Advanstar Communications Powersports
service at the Medill School and senior             Group; editorial director, Dealernews
director of the Media Management Center,            Magazine
Northwestern University; and a consultant
in the B2B space.

Robin Sherman, associate director,                  Rita Jane Gabbett is executive editor of
American Society of Business Publication            Meatingplace.com, an online community
Editors; principal, Editorial & Design              for red meat and poultry processors in
Services; and former corporate director of          North America.
editorial development, Argus Business.
W
www.ASBPE.org




What we’ll talk about
                       ebinar
                       An education service
                       of the American Society of
                       Business Publication Editors




I   ASBPE/Medill Survey on Digital Skills and Strategies:
    Key findings — Abe Peck
I   Ways to sell training to management — Robin Sherman
I   Ideas for in-house training — Robin Sherman
I   Where to get outside training — Robin Sherman
I   Tales from the trenches — Mary Slepicka and Rita Jane Gabbett
I   Mini-case studies — Abe Peck and Robin Sherman
W
www.ASBPE.org
                             ebinar
                             An education service
                             of the American Society of
                             Business Publication Editors




How adequate is the digital skills training
provided by your company?
Survey taken in November 2009

                   Valid %
Very inadequate     36.3
Somewhat
inadequate          31.9
Somewhat
adequate            27.0
Very adequate        4.8
  Total            100.0
W
www.ASBPE.org
                            ebinar
                            An education service
                            of the American Society of
                            Business Publication Editors




In the last 12 months, how much digital skills
training have you received from your company?
Survey taken in November 2009

                                    Valid %
 None                                  36.2
 Less than one half-day                28.4
 1 day total (8 hours)                 16.4
 2–3 days total (16–24 hours)           11.6
 4–5 days total (25–40 hours)            5.6
 > 2 weeks total (80 hours)              1.1
 > 1 month total (81–160 hours)            .7
  Total                               100.0
W
www.ASBPE.org
                               ebinar
                               An education service
                               of the American Society of
                               Business Publication Editors




How necessary are these strategies
in the next 12 months?
Items rated on a 1 to 5 scale, with 1 being unnecessary and 5 being extremely necessary;
         ranked by “rating average.”
                                                Unnecessary Extremely Rating
                                                            necessary average
Improving digital content, organization, design 0.8%         38.1%     3.96
Training in digital technologies
and online skills                                  1.2%      38.3%     3.94
Researching readers/advertisers                    1.2%      29.9%     3.80
Resisting any loosening of editorial ethics
to maintain or increase revenue                   17.1%       37.1%    3.49
Leveraging content between brands/titles           7.2%      23.0%     3.45
Redefining the skills necessary
for current and new reporters, editors, artists    7.6%      22.5%     3.42
Being platform agnostic                            8.0%      23.4%     3.32
Looking for new markets for content                8.3%      20.8%     3.29
Increasing editorial staff                        15.4%      22.0%     3.22
Editorial responsibility for content marketing    14.8%       14.8%    2.96
Improving print content, organization, design 17.1%            8.7%    2.82
Training in business journalism skills            20.4%       11.6%    2.69
Moving from a largely print-first
to a largely digital-first orientation            27.6%       13.6%    2.60
Reorganizing or maintaining staffs
within broad, centralized content groups
rather than individual markets                    45.0%        7.2%    2.12
Moving to digital-only                            79.4%        2.8%    1.39
Downsizing editorial staff                        90.3%        0.8%    1.15
W
www.ASBPE.org




B2B editors’ rating of their
                                ebinar
                                 An education service
                                 of the American Society of
                                 Business Publication Editors




publisher’s knowledge or skill level
Items rated on a 1 to 5 scale, with 1 being poor and 4 being excellent;
         ranked by “rating average.”
                                                                          Poor    Rating
                                                                                  average
Provides adequate amounts of training                                     48.1%    1.82
Really understands what it takes
for editors to run our digital media                                      31.4%    2.14
Provides adequate support and resources for editorial staff               27.3%    2.22
Stays current on trends about journalism                                  28.2%    2.30
Rewards innovation; rewards hard work by editors                          29.8%    2.35
Takes steps to make the operation
work well across platforms                                                22.9%    2.38
Communicates strategies and decisions well;
fosters collaboration among departments                                   22.1%    2.41
Attracts and retains the best employees                                   14.4%    2.54
Really understands what it takes
for editors to run our print media                                        22.1%    2.55
Has a clear vision and understanding of the future
of your brand and its content                                             13.6%    2.66
Stays current on trends about your market
and how to market content to it                                            8.9%    2.82
Is open to new ways of doing things;
is not afraid to take some risks                                          10.2%    2.98
W
www.ASBPE.org
                                ebinar
                                 An education service
                                 of the American Society of
                                 Business Publication Editors




How important are these activities to doing
your job successfully in the next 12 months?
ranked by combination of “very important” and “extremely important”


Writing and editing Web content
(e.g. headlines, articles, lists, category labels, use of keywords for search,
navigation/links language, calls for action, instructions)                       68.4%
Managing workflow/workload between Web and print                                 65.8%
Writing and editing e-newsletters
(e.g. subject lines, headlines, articles, lists, category labels, keywords,
navigation/links language, calls for action)                                     62.1%
Using a content management system                                                57.1%
Developing Internet and other digital content
(and marketing) strategies                                                       55.5%
Using Web analytics for editorial purposes; knowing what stats
are useful to editors, how to use and interpret them
to inform editorial content decisions                                            48.6%
Engaging/interacting with readers online                                         44.7%
Blogging
(writing, posting, managing, marketing)                                          37.8%
Using, marketing, managing social media
(e.g. Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, forums)                                       37.2%
Developing, operating, moderating, marketing webinars                            27.3%
Preparing quality images for the Internet                                        25.2%
Recording, shooting, editing audio/video                                         21.3%
Mining online databases                                                          21.1%
Creating online slideshows or photo galleries                                    20.8%
Developing and implementing
virtual trade shows/conferences                                                  17.6%
Coding HTML, CSS, XML                                                            16.6%
W
www.ASBPE.org




About training
                       ebinar
                       An education service
                       of the American Society of
                       Business Publication Editors




I   Ways to sell training to management
I   Ideas for in-house organizational training
I   Where to get outside training
W
www.ASBPE.org
                            ebinar
                              An education service
                              of the American Society of
                              Business Publication Editors




Ways to sell training to management

I   Can be inexpensive; create cost-effective budget for training
I   Show the end result of training
I   How it can better position you against your competition
I   Get Production on your side
I   Show how it might affect ROI; show how lack of training affects ROI
I   Get HR on your side
I   Get testimonials
I   Current ideas not working
I   Morale booster
I   Easier and quicker to train existing staff in new technologies
I   Provides marketing and sales with more ammunition
I   People respect training — promote it to readers and advertisers
I   Training is good time to reinforce corporate mission, strategies, tactics,
     standards, best practices
I   Promotes more effective decisionmaking
I   Promotes efficiencies
I   Less disruption of work
W
www.ASBPE.org
                           ebinar
                            An education service
                            of the American Society of
                            Business Publication Editors




Ideas for in-house organizational training

I   Set up training committee for internal workshops
I   Pass-on training:
    Allow one staff member to get paid training, then train rest of staff
I   Mentoring
I   Bring in trainers/consultant
I   Bring in vendors of hardware/software you use
I   Job shadowing
I   Purchase classroom-based course, e.g. Adobe in a Classroom
W
www.ASBPE.org
                         ebinar
                         An education service
                         of the American Society of
                         Business Publication Editors




Where to get outside training

National and local colleges
National and local professional and trade associations
User groups for most software
YouTube
Slideshare (e.g. conference sesion presentations, handouts)
CreativePro
  www.creativepro.com/
TotalTraining.com
Lynda.com well rounded number of classes for print and digital
AdobeTV
  http://tv.adobe.com
HTML Goodies
  http://www.htmlgoodies.com/
W
www.ASBPE.org
                         ebinar
                          An education service
                          of the American Society of
                          Business Publication Editors




Where to get outside training

W3Schools
 http://www.w3schools.com/
HTML Dog
  http://htmldog.com/
Digital Tutors
  www.digitaltutors.com
www.planetdigital.com/
Junta 24 content marketing
  www.junta42.com/
min online
  www.minonline.com
Poynter
  www.poynter.org/training
W
www.ASBPE.org
                          ebinar
                          An education service
                          of the American Society of
                          Business Publication Editors




Where to get outside training

Institute for Interactive Journalism’s J-Lab and J-Learning
   www.j-lab.org/
   www.j-learning.org/
MarketingSherpa “practical case studies and know-how”
 www.marketingsherpa.com/
Mequoda
 www.mequoda.com/
Sitepoint
   www.sitepoint.com/
O’Reilly
  http://oreilly.com/
eMedia Vitals
  http://emediavitals.com/
MediaBistro
W
www.ASBPE.org
                            ebinar
                            An education service
                            of the American Society of
                            Business Publication Editors




Where to get outside training

Books — how quaint
Magazines
SPJ’s Journalist’s Toolbox
  http://journaliststoolbox.org/
Govt grant for retraining
Knight Digital Media Center’s Web 2.0 Training for Journalists:
  http://multimedia.journalism.berkeley.edu/workshops/32/
Donald W. Reynolds Center for Business Journalism,
  businessjournalism.org
Knowledgewebb.net 30% discount
Calling colleagues who are already doing
Software “help” functions
Vendors
Google Internet marketing webinars
  Google webmaster tools help
  www.google.com/support/webmasters/?hl=en
W
www.ASBPE.org
                         ebinar
                         An education service
                         of the American Society of
                         Business Publication Editors




Where to get outside training

Inbound marketing, search marketing,
  Blogging for business, Social media marketing, Web site best practices
  www.useit.com
  www.hubspot.com
  www.webmarketing123.com
  www.searchenginestrategies.com
  www.seomoz.org/
  www.sreetips.com/
  www.emediastrategist.com/blog/
  http://bosacks.homestead.com/pmg1.html

Blogs/Web sites:
  Jakob Nielsen’s Alertbox,
  Mashable,
  Problogger,
  Copyblogger,
  Social Media Examiner,
  Tech for Luddites,
  ASBPE National Blog,
  www.semanticweb.com/
  http://www.journalists.org/
W
www.ASBPE.org
                            ebinar
                             An education service
                             of the American Society of
                             Business Publication Editors




In-house training: Mini-case studies

I   Shore-Varrone, former B2B publisher, now part of Nielsen Business Media
I   Argus, former B2B publisher, now part of Penton
I   Engineering News-Record
I   Another company-wide training program


As you now start to send in your questions. . .
W
www.ASBPE.org
                             ebinar
                              An education service
                              of the American Society of
                              Business Publication Editors




With a little help from our friends

I   Bob LeBailly, researcher, Media Management Center
I   Mary Nesbitt, associate dean, Medill School of Journalism
I   Roy Harris, president, ASBPE Foundation;
    freelance writer; author, Pulitzer’s Gold: Behind the Prize for Public Service Journalism;
    former senior editor, CFO;
    former reporter, Wall Street Journal.
I   Rob Freedman, vice president, ASBPE Foundation;
    senior editor, Realtor
I   Warren Hersch, president, ASBPE;
    senior editor, National Underwriter Life & Health
I   Martha Spizziri, Web editor, ASBPE;
    freelance writer/editor
I   Doug Shore, Business-to-business media maven;
    former co-founder, chairman and co-CEO of Shore-Varrone, Inc.
W
www.ASBPE.org




Contact us
                           ebinar
                           An education service
                           of the American Society of
                           Business Publication Editors




I Abe Peck,     a-peck@northwestern.edu
I Robin Sherman,      robinsherman@bellsouth.net
I Rita Jane Gabbett,    jgabbett@meatingplace.com
I Mary Slepicka,    mslepicka@advanstar.com

Download webinar slides at:

  www.asbpe.org/

  click on “webinar” button

Download full research report at:

  www.asbpe.org/

  www.mediamanagementcenter.org/

Send us your questions now.
Q&A
   W
www.ASBPE.org
                       ebinar
                        An education service
                        of the American Society of
                        Business Publication Editors




Send us your questions now.


Thank you.

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Bridging the Digital Skills Training Gap

  • 1. W www.ASBPE.org ebinar An education service of the American Society of Business Publication Editors Bridging the DigitalSkills Training Gap for business-to-business editors I June 2010 I American Society of Business Publication Editors
  • 2. W www.ASBPE.org Research ebinar An education service of the American Society of Business Publication Editors Sponsors American Society of Medill School/ Media Management Center Business Publication Editors Northwestern University Northwestern University 214 N. Hale St. 301 Fisk Hall 304 Fisk Hall Wheaton, IL 60187 1845 Sheridan Road 1845 Sheridan Road phone: (630) 510-4588 Evanston, IL 60208 Evanston, IL 60208 fax: (630) 5110-4501 phone: (847) 467-1882 phone: (847) 491-4900 info@asbpe.org www.medill.northwestern.edu/ www.mediamanagementcenter. www.asbpe.org org
  • 3. W www.ASBPE.org Speakers ebinar An education service of the American Society of Business Publication Editors Abe Peck, director of business-to-business Mary Slepicka, group content director, communication, professor emeritus in Advanstar Communications Powersports service at the Medill School and senior Group; editorial director, Dealernews director of the Media Management Center, Magazine Northwestern University; and a consultant in the B2B space. Robin Sherman, associate director, Rita Jane Gabbett is executive editor of American Society of Business Publication Meatingplace.com, an online community Editors; principal, Editorial & Design for red meat and poultry processors in Services; and former corporate director of North America. editorial development, Argus Business.
  • 4. W www.ASBPE.org What we’ll talk about ebinar An education service of the American Society of Business Publication Editors I ASBPE/Medill Survey on Digital Skills and Strategies: Key findings — Abe Peck I Ways to sell training to management — Robin Sherman I Ideas for in-house training — Robin Sherman I Where to get outside training — Robin Sherman I Tales from the trenches — Mary Slepicka and Rita Jane Gabbett I Mini-case studies — Abe Peck and Robin Sherman
  • 5. W www.ASBPE.org ebinar An education service of the American Society of Business Publication Editors How adequate is the digital skills training provided by your company? Survey taken in November 2009 Valid % Very inadequate 36.3 Somewhat inadequate 31.9 Somewhat adequate 27.0 Very adequate 4.8 Total 100.0
  • 6. W www.ASBPE.org ebinar An education service of the American Society of Business Publication Editors In the last 12 months, how much digital skills training have you received from your company? Survey taken in November 2009 Valid % None 36.2 Less than one half-day 28.4 1 day total (8 hours) 16.4 2–3 days total (16–24 hours) 11.6 4–5 days total (25–40 hours) 5.6 > 2 weeks total (80 hours) 1.1 > 1 month total (81–160 hours) .7 Total 100.0
  • 7. W www.ASBPE.org ebinar An education service of the American Society of Business Publication Editors How necessary are these strategies in the next 12 months? Items rated on a 1 to 5 scale, with 1 being unnecessary and 5 being extremely necessary; ranked by “rating average.” Unnecessary Extremely Rating necessary average Improving digital content, organization, design 0.8% 38.1% 3.96 Training in digital technologies and online skills 1.2% 38.3% 3.94 Researching readers/advertisers 1.2% 29.9% 3.80 Resisting any loosening of editorial ethics to maintain or increase revenue 17.1% 37.1% 3.49 Leveraging content between brands/titles 7.2% 23.0% 3.45 Redefining the skills necessary for current and new reporters, editors, artists 7.6% 22.5% 3.42 Being platform agnostic 8.0% 23.4% 3.32 Looking for new markets for content 8.3% 20.8% 3.29 Increasing editorial staff 15.4% 22.0% 3.22 Editorial responsibility for content marketing 14.8% 14.8% 2.96 Improving print content, organization, design 17.1% 8.7% 2.82 Training in business journalism skills 20.4% 11.6% 2.69 Moving from a largely print-first to a largely digital-first orientation 27.6% 13.6% 2.60 Reorganizing or maintaining staffs within broad, centralized content groups rather than individual markets 45.0% 7.2% 2.12 Moving to digital-only 79.4% 2.8% 1.39 Downsizing editorial staff 90.3% 0.8% 1.15
  • 8. W www.ASBPE.org B2B editors’ rating of their ebinar An education service of the American Society of Business Publication Editors publisher’s knowledge or skill level Items rated on a 1 to 5 scale, with 1 being poor and 4 being excellent; ranked by “rating average.” Poor Rating average Provides adequate amounts of training 48.1% 1.82 Really understands what it takes for editors to run our digital media 31.4% 2.14 Provides adequate support and resources for editorial staff 27.3% 2.22 Stays current on trends about journalism 28.2% 2.30 Rewards innovation; rewards hard work by editors 29.8% 2.35 Takes steps to make the operation work well across platforms 22.9% 2.38 Communicates strategies and decisions well; fosters collaboration among departments 22.1% 2.41 Attracts and retains the best employees 14.4% 2.54 Really understands what it takes for editors to run our print media 22.1% 2.55 Has a clear vision and understanding of the future of your brand and its content 13.6% 2.66 Stays current on trends about your market and how to market content to it 8.9% 2.82 Is open to new ways of doing things; is not afraid to take some risks 10.2% 2.98
  • 9. W www.ASBPE.org ebinar An education service of the American Society of Business Publication Editors How important are these activities to doing your job successfully in the next 12 months? ranked by combination of “very important” and “extremely important” Writing and editing Web content (e.g. headlines, articles, lists, category labels, use of keywords for search, navigation/links language, calls for action, instructions) 68.4% Managing workflow/workload between Web and print 65.8% Writing and editing e-newsletters (e.g. subject lines, headlines, articles, lists, category labels, keywords, navigation/links language, calls for action) 62.1% Using a content management system 57.1% Developing Internet and other digital content (and marketing) strategies 55.5% Using Web analytics for editorial purposes; knowing what stats are useful to editors, how to use and interpret them to inform editorial content decisions 48.6% Engaging/interacting with readers online 44.7% Blogging (writing, posting, managing, marketing) 37.8% Using, marketing, managing social media (e.g. Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, forums) 37.2% Developing, operating, moderating, marketing webinars 27.3% Preparing quality images for the Internet 25.2% Recording, shooting, editing audio/video 21.3% Mining online databases 21.1% Creating online slideshows or photo galleries 20.8% Developing and implementing virtual trade shows/conferences 17.6% Coding HTML, CSS, XML 16.6%
  • 10. W www.ASBPE.org About training ebinar An education service of the American Society of Business Publication Editors I Ways to sell training to management I Ideas for in-house organizational training I Where to get outside training
  • 11. W www.ASBPE.org ebinar An education service of the American Society of Business Publication Editors Ways to sell training to management I Can be inexpensive; create cost-effective budget for training I Show the end result of training I How it can better position you against your competition I Get Production on your side I Show how it might affect ROI; show how lack of training affects ROI I Get HR on your side I Get testimonials I Current ideas not working I Morale booster I Easier and quicker to train existing staff in new technologies I Provides marketing and sales with more ammunition I People respect training — promote it to readers and advertisers I Training is good time to reinforce corporate mission, strategies, tactics, standards, best practices I Promotes more effective decisionmaking I Promotes efficiencies I Less disruption of work
  • 12. W www.ASBPE.org ebinar An education service of the American Society of Business Publication Editors Ideas for in-house organizational training I Set up training committee for internal workshops I Pass-on training: Allow one staff member to get paid training, then train rest of staff I Mentoring I Bring in trainers/consultant I Bring in vendors of hardware/software you use I Job shadowing I Purchase classroom-based course, e.g. Adobe in a Classroom
  • 13. W www.ASBPE.org ebinar An education service of the American Society of Business Publication Editors Where to get outside training National and local colleges National and local professional and trade associations User groups for most software YouTube Slideshare (e.g. conference sesion presentations, handouts) CreativePro www.creativepro.com/ TotalTraining.com Lynda.com well rounded number of classes for print and digital AdobeTV http://tv.adobe.com HTML Goodies http://www.htmlgoodies.com/
  • 14. W www.ASBPE.org ebinar An education service of the American Society of Business Publication Editors Where to get outside training W3Schools http://www.w3schools.com/ HTML Dog http://htmldog.com/ Digital Tutors www.digitaltutors.com www.planetdigital.com/ Junta 24 content marketing www.junta42.com/ min online www.minonline.com Poynter www.poynter.org/training
  • 15. W www.ASBPE.org ebinar An education service of the American Society of Business Publication Editors Where to get outside training Institute for Interactive Journalism’s J-Lab and J-Learning www.j-lab.org/ www.j-learning.org/ MarketingSherpa “practical case studies and know-how” www.marketingsherpa.com/ Mequoda www.mequoda.com/ Sitepoint www.sitepoint.com/ O’Reilly http://oreilly.com/ eMedia Vitals http://emediavitals.com/ MediaBistro
  • 16. W www.ASBPE.org ebinar An education service of the American Society of Business Publication Editors Where to get outside training Books — how quaint Magazines SPJ’s Journalist’s Toolbox http://journaliststoolbox.org/ Govt grant for retraining Knight Digital Media Center’s Web 2.0 Training for Journalists: http://multimedia.journalism.berkeley.edu/workshops/32/ Donald W. Reynolds Center for Business Journalism, businessjournalism.org Knowledgewebb.net 30% discount Calling colleagues who are already doing Software “help” functions Vendors Google Internet marketing webinars Google webmaster tools help www.google.com/support/webmasters/?hl=en
  • 17. W www.ASBPE.org ebinar An education service of the American Society of Business Publication Editors Where to get outside training Inbound marketing, search marketing, Blogging for business, Social media marketing, Web site best practices www.useit.com www.hubspot.com www.webmarketing123.com www.searchenginestrategies.com www.seomoz.org/ www.sreetips.com/ www.emediastrategist.com/blog/ http://bosacks.homestead.com/pmg1.html Blogs/Web sites: Jakob Nielsen’s Alertbox, Mashable, Problogger, Copyblogger, Social Media Examiner, Tech for Luddites, ASBPE National Blog, www.semanticweb.com/ http://www.journalists.org/
  • 18. W www.ASBPE.org ebinar An education service of the American Society of Business Publication Editors In-house training: Mini-case studies I Shore-Varrone, former B2B publisher, now part of Nielsen Business Media I Argus, former B2B publisher, now part of Penton I Engineering News-Record I Another company-wide training program As you now start to send in your questions. . .
  • 19. W www.ASBPE.org ebinar An education service of the American Society of Business Publication Editors With a little help from our friends I Bob LeBailly, researcher, Media Management Center I Mary Nesbitt, associate dean, Medill School of Journalism I Roy Harris, president, ASBPE Foundation; freelance writer; author, Pulitzer’s Gold: Behind the Prize for Public Service Journalism; former senior editor, CFO; former reporter, Wall Street Journal. I Rob Freedman, vice president, ASBPE Foundation; senior editor, Realtor I Warren Hersch, president, ASBPE; senior editor, National Underwriter Life & Health I Martha Spizziri, Web editor, ASBPE; freelance writer/editor I Doug Shore, Business-to-business media maven; former co-founder, chairman and co-CEO of Shore-Varrone, Inc.
  • 20. W www.ASBPE.org Contact us ebinar An education service of the American Society of Business Publication Editors I Abe Peck, a-peck@northwestern.edu I Robin Sherman, robinsherman@bellsouth.net I Rita Jane Gabbett, jgabbett@meatingplace.com I Mary Slepicka, mslepicka@advanstar.com Download webinar slides at: www.asbpe.org/ click on “webinar” button Download full research report at: www.asbpe.org/ www.mediamanagementcenter.org/ Send us your questions now.
  • 21. Q&A W www.ASBPE.org ebinar An education service of the American Society of Business Publication Editors Send us your questions now. Thank you.