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P-123 A Complete Waste of Time:
Redux
Ed Kless
@edkless
CPE Credit
• In order to receive CPE credit for this session, you must be present for
the entire session.
– Session Code: P-123
– Recommended CPE Credit = 1
– Delivery Method = Group Live
– Field of Study = Specialized Knowledge and Applications
• Visit the Sage Summit Connect kiosks to enter CPE credit during the
conference.
Two Drills
• Review of moving off the solution
• Dealing with Yellow Lights
MOVE OFF THE SOLUTION
How to clarify by first asking permission (includes some
presumptive moves)
Moving off the solution - clarify
• Listen
• Assuage
• Move
• Close probe
• We are looking to
outsource our CRM
training. Do you do
that?
• We do. Outsourcing is
a hot topic today and it
means different things
to different people.
Would it be OK if I
asked you about what
outsourcing means in
your specific context?
Clarify – Example 1
Clarify – Example 2
• Each month we create a couple
hundred new customer files for
prospects. These prospects
have identical orders. It takes a
lot of time. What would it take
to be able to regularly mass
create customer cards from an
Excel file? What would it take to
regularly create mass identical
sales orders to a list of
customers on an Excel file?
• I believe this is
absolutely doable.
However, before we
get started, would it be
OK if I asked you a
few questions about
what the expected
results of this would
be?
Clarify – Example 3
• Sure, I would be happy to
send you a proposal, but
before we do, can I ask
what exactly do you mean
by “generic part numbers”
as this sometimes has
different meanings
depending on the
context?
• I do want to discuss going
to generic part numbers
and would like you to write
up a proposal for that
project. Jeff is hot to get
onto generic part
numbers. Can you also
include in the proposal
that phases of the project
and estimate of your cost
and time?
Clarify – Example 4
•I be happy to, and in
my experience,
customers mean many
different things when
they say “increasing
the security.” Would
you give me some
background on
specifically what you
are looking to do?
• We are interested in
increasing the security
of our HR data. I hear
you have some
expertise in that area.
Would you mind
sharing your thoughts
with me?
Clarify – Example 5
• I’d be glad to offer my
thoughts. Help me out.
Can I ask what it
means when you say
you want to improve
communications
internally and
externally, what is
going on?
• We want to implement
a more effective CRM
system to improve our
communications
internally and with
customers. How would
you compare Sage
CRM with Microsoft
CRM?
Clarify – Example 6
• We can definitely get
you there. To do so
successfully, I’ll need
to know more about
what is it you really
want to accomplish.
Would it be OK if we
talked about that for a
few minutes?
• We want to market our
products on the
Internet and don’t
have that expertise in
house. Can you get us
there?
Clarify – Example 6
• And I would love to
have a conversation
with you about it.
From your description,
it sounds like this is
also process related.
Is that the case, and if
so, can we talk about
your current process?
• I want to start a
conversation regarding the
tracking of warranty
information. We take back
returns that aren't
necessarily 'defective'.
They come back for a
variety of reasons.
Defective returns need to
hit a different warehouse,
and we need to track for
vendor credit.
Clarify – Example 7 Presumptive
• And we would love to
help. At this point it
would be presumptive
of me to define what a
new environment
means. Can we
perhaps start with a
definition of your
desired end state?
• Our current system is
ancient and I think I
finally have approval
to move to a new
environment. We want
your help in making
the transition.
Clarify – Example 8 Presumptive
• I’ll be happy to give
you price once I
understand exactly
what you want to
accomplish and at this
point it would be
presumptive of me to
guess. Would you
mind giving me some
details about the holes
you are trying to fill?
• We need to fill in
some temporary holes
with our internal
customization
capacity. What is your
rate for customization
work?
Clarify – Example 9
• Before I sharpen my
pencil, let me sharpen
my definition of what
you what to achieve.
Would it be OK to talk
about what kinds of
remote support are
you looking for?
• We need a new
company to provide us
with remote CRM
support and are
looking for someone
who can sharpen their
pencil on price. How
do you price our your
services?
Clarify – Example 10 Presumptive
• Fair enough, SaaS is
a hot topic right now.
However, it would be
presumptive of me at
this point to offer my
opinion since SaaS
environments have
different definitions.
Could you give me
yours?
• Our new IT director
feels there are
advantages to moving
to a SaaS
environment. I would
like your independent
opinion.
Clarify – Example 11
• We are hearing that
from many of our
customers. Of course,
they all calculate TCO
using different
measures. Can you
tell me how are you
defining it?
• We need to bring
down the total cost of
ownership of our
system and are
looking for any and all
ideas.
Clarify – Example 12
• The first thing that I’ll
say about my
experience is that
everyone who asks for
integrations with Sage
100 has something
different in mind. Can
you tell me about why
you want to integrate
so I can make my
comments more
relevant?
• I’m looking to integrate
our BPM software with
Sage 100. Ideally we
would like to connect
to the Sage database
to read items codes,
customer IDs and job
numbers. What
options are available
to connect to the
database?
Clarify – Example 13 Presumptive
• We would be glad to
offer our assistance.
However, at this point
it would be
presumptive of me to
offer a solution. Can
you tell me what your
CIO’s definition of
“improved flow of
information is?”
• Our CIO has
mandated that we
improve our
information flow in our
ERP/CRM/HR system
and we are looking for
some help.
Clarify – Example 14
• Our belief is that
processes and
technology are
interdependent.
However, before I say
we do BPR, can I ask
what is BPR in the
context of your
situation?
• Do you do business
process reengineering
in combination with
your implementations?
Clarify – Example 15 Presumptive
• We can definitely provide
an ODBC link but at this
point it would be
presumptive of me to say I
can get the data you
need. Can you say what
might be the benefit of
having this information as
a link?
• I’m currently putting
together a cost analysis
by program which
requires running GL detail
reports in Sage 100 and
then manipulating the
data after exporting it into
excel. Would it be
possible to provide me
with an ODBC table in MS
Access which I can run
queries against in order to
pull the data that I need?
Clarify – Example 16
• Very likely. Before I
give you a definitive
answer, could you tell
me what you are
including in your
current CRM
hardware
infrastructure?
• We need help to
revamp our CRM
hardware
infrastructure. Is that
something you are
prepared to help us
with?
YELLOW LIGHTS
Contrary to your normal driving habits you are supposed to slow
down not speed up
Dealing with Yellow Lights
• Listen
• Express concern
• Name the concern
• Close probe
Yellow Light – Example 1
• I have a concern. If
the S4 is unsure about
this working, shouldn’t
it be their reposibility
to make that
determination?
• I received a call from a
customer saying they
would like to look at
Spreadsheet Server
because their controller
had used it in the past.
However, (the S4) is
unsure if their software
will work properly with
ProvideX. So, the
customer asks me to
figure out how to connect
to Sage 100.
Yellow Light – Example 1
• I have a concern. If we
have no evidence or
sense of impact of the
problem, somebody,
somewhere is going to
seriously question the
validity of this project.
Is that possible?
• The customer is
pushing to move
ahead with developing
a solution to solve the
problem without
identifying the
evidence of its
existence and impact
on the organization.
Yellow Light – Example 2
• I think we might have
a problem. It seems
that even if we
identified a solution
that meets your
needs, there is little
chance that it will get
approval from the
CEO. What do you
think we should do?
• The customer
mentions that the
CEO has not been
favorable to the
project in the past.
Yellow Light – Example 3
• I can’t help but
thinking that you have
been successful in
addressing issues like
this using an internal
resource in the past.
Is that an option you
are considering?
• You feel like you are
being asked to design
a solution that will end
up just being done by
the customers internal
resources.
Yellow Light – Example 4
• I have a concern. It
seems the cost of a
solution may be larger
than the problem itself
and it makes little
sense to continue
moving ahead. Am I
missing something?
• You believe the cost
of the solution your
customer is asking for
is larger than the cost
of the problem it is
intended to solve.
Yellow Light – Example 5
• Could I check
something out? I
noticed a moment ago
an expression on your
face. I am unclear as
to what was going
through your mind.
Would you mind
sharing what it was
you were thinking?
• As you were asking a
customer a question,
you saw a look on her
face that make you
think she was
displeased in some
way.
Yellow Light – Example 6
• I have a concern. Your
question seems to
indicated that you
believe there should
be no charge for an
upgrade. Would you
mind sharing why you
might think that is the
case?
• Why would we incur
costs if we do a Sage
upgrade? Not
questioning, just trying
to understand.
Yellow Light – Example 7
• I have a concern. I get
the sense that even
though this issue is
clearly important to
you, it is possible that
others will not support
it. Without that support
there is a pretty good
chance it will not be
adopted. Do you
share that concern?
• You get a sense that
the only person at
your customer’s
company who will feel
the issue you have
been talking about is
truly important is your
contact.
Yellow Light – Example 8
• I have a concern. I don’t
know if your CFO is like
our CFO. However, at
our company, even if
everyone thinks there is
a problem, there needs
to be a business case
backing up the request
before he will allocate
money. Could that be a
possibility here?
• Your customer does
not want to take the
time to develop a
business case for the
solution because,
“everyone knows it is
a problem.”
Yellow Light – Example 9
I am concerned. In my
experience it is only
likely for an organization
to move forward on
resolving issues when
they are 9’s or 10’s,
rather than something
that is a 6. Is that fair to
say?
• In an attempt to
qualify the importance
of a issue on a scale
of 1 to 10, the
customer indicates
they are a 6.
Yellow Lights – Example 10
• I would like to check
something out with
you. It sounds like you
already have a sense
of who is going to do
this work. Am I off
target?
• You begin to feel that
a decision has already
be made to outsource
this issue to someone
else.
Yellow Light – Example 11
• I think we have a
problem. It seems that
even if we develop a
solution that meets
your needs, there is
reason to doubt a
decision will be made
one way or the other.
What is your sense?
• You have done your
best trying to elicit the
steps your customer
will take to make a
decision, and it is
unclear to both of you
what will happen.

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A Complete Waste of Time - Redux

  • 1. P-123 A Complete Waste of Time: Redux Ed Kless @edkless
  • 2. CPE Credit • In order to receive CPE credit for this session, you must be present for the entire session. – Session Code: P-123 – Recommended CPE Credit = 1 – Delivery Method = Group Live – Field of Study = Specialized Knowledge and Applications • Visit the Sage Summit Connect kiosks to enter CPE credit during the conference.
  • 3. Two Drills • Review of moving off the solution • Dealing with Yellow Lights
  • 4. MOVE OFF THE SOLUTION How to clarify by first asking permission (includes some presumptive moves)
  • 5. Moving off the solution - clarify • Listen • Assuage • Move • Close probe
  • 6. • We are looking to outsource our CRM training. Do you do that? • We do. Outsourcing is a hot topic today and it means different things to different people. Would it be OK if I asked you about what outsourcing means in your specific context? Clarify – Example 1
  • 7. Clarify – Example 2 • Each month we create a couple hundred new customer files for prospects. These prospects have identical orders. It takes a lot of time. What would it take to be able to regularly mass create customer cards from an Excel file? What would it take to regularly create mass identical sales orders to a list of customers on an Excel file? • I believe this is absolutely doable. However, before we get started, would it be OK if I asked you a few questions about what the expected results of this would be?
  • 8. Clarify – Example 3 • Sure, I would be happy to send you a proposal, but before we do, can I ask what exactly do you mean by “generic part numbers” as this sometimes has different meanings depending on the context? • I do want to discuss going to generic part numbers and would like you to write up a proposal for that project. Jeff is hot to get onto generic part numbers. Can you also include in the proposal that phases of the project and estimate of your cost and time?
  • 9. Clarify – Example 4 •I be happy to, and in my experience, customers mean many different things when they say “increasing the security.” Would you give me some background on specifically what you are looking to do? • We are interested in increasing the security of our HR data. I hear you have some expertise in that area. Would you mind sharing your thoughts with me?
  • 10. Clarify – Example 5 • I’d be glad to offer my thoughts. Help me out. Can I ask what it means when you say you want to improve communications internally and externally, what is going on? • We want to implement a more effective CRM system to improve our communications internally and with customers. How would you compare Sage CRM with Microsoft CRM?
  • 11. Clarify – Example 6 • We can definitely get you there. To do so successfully, I’ll need to know more about what is it you really want to accomplish. Would it be OK if we talked about that for a few minutes? • We want to market our products on the Internet and don’t have that expertise in house. Can you get us there?
  • 12. Clarify – Example 6 • And I would love to have a conversation with you about it. From your description, it sounds like this is also process related. Is that the case, and if so, can we talk about your current process? • I want to start a conversation regarding the tracking of warranty information. We take back returns that aren't necessarily 'defective'. They come back for a variety of reasons. Defective returns need to hit a different warehouse, and we need to track for vendor credit.
  • 13. Clarify – Example 7 Presumptive • And we would love to help. At this point it would be presumptive of me to define what a new environment means. Can we perhaps start with a definition of your desired end state? • Our current system is ancient and I think I finally have approval to move to a new environment. We want your help in making the transition.
  • 14. Clarify – Example 8 Presumptive • I’ll be happy to give you price once I understand exactly what you want to accomplish and at this point it would be presumptive of me to guess. Would you mind giving me some details about the holes you are trying to fill? • We need to fill in some temporary holes with our internal customization capacity. What is your rate for customization work?
  • 15. Clarify – Example 9 • Before I sharpen my pencil, let me sharpen my definition of what you what to achieve. Would it be OK to talk about what kinds of remote support are you looking for? • We need a new company to provide us with remote CRM support and are looking for someone who can sharpen their pencil on price. How do you price our your services?
  • 16. Clarify – Example 10 Presumptive • Fair enough, SaaS is a hot topic right now. However, it would be presumptive of me at this point to offer my opinion since SaaS environments have different definitions. Could you give me yours? • Our new IT director feels there are advantages to moving to a SaaS environment. I would like your independent opinion.
  • 17. Clarify – Example 11 • We are hearing that from many of our customers. Of course, they all calculate TCO using different measures. Can you tell me how are you defining it? • We need to bring down the total cost of ownership of our system and are looking for any and all ideas.
  • 18. Clarify – Example 12 • The first thing that I’ll say about my experience is that everyone who asks for integrations with Sage 100 has something different in mind. Can you tell me about why you want to integrate so I can make my comments more relevant? • I’m looking to integrate our BPM software with Sage 100. Ideally we would like to connect to the Sage database to read items codes, customer IDs and job numbers. What options are available to connect to the database?
  • 19. Clarify – Example 13 Presumptive • We would be glad to offer our assistance. However, at this point it would be presumptive of me to offer a solution. Can you tell me what your CIO’s definition of “improved flow of information is?” • Our CIO has mandated that we improve our information flow in our ERP/CRM/HR system and we are looking for some help.
  • 20. Clarify – Example 14 • Our belief is that processes and technology are interdependent. However, before I say we do BPR, can I ask what is BPR in the context of your situation? • Do you do business process reengineering in combination with your implementations?
  • 21. Clarify – Example 15 Presumptive • We can definitely provide an ODBC link but at this point it would be presumptive of me to say I can get the data you need. Can you say what might be the benefit of having this information as a link? • I’m currently putting together a cost analysis by program which requires running GL detail reports in Sage 100 and then manipulating the data after exporting it into excel. Would it be possible to provide me with an ODBC table in MS Access which I can run queries against in order to pull the data that I need?
  • 22. Clarify – Example 16 • Very likely. Before I give you a definitive answer, could you tell me what you are including in your current CRM hardware infrastructure? • We need help to revamp our CRM hardware infrastructure. Is that something you are prepared to help us with?
  • 23. YELLOW LIGHTS Contrary to your normal driving habits you are supposed to slow down not speed up
  • 24. Dealing with Yellow Lights • Listen • Express concern • Name the concern • Close probe
  • 25. Yellow Light – Example 1 • I have a concern. If the S4 is unsure about this working, shouldn’t it be their reposibility to make that determination? • I received a call from a customer saying they would like to look at Spreadsheet Server because their controller had used it in the past. However, (the S4) is unsure if their software will work properly with ProvideX. So, the customer asks me to figure out how to connect to Sage 100.
  • 26. Yellow Light – Example 1 • I have a concern. If we have no evidence or sense of impact of the problem, somebody, somewhere is going to seriously question the validity of this project. Is that possible? • The customer is pushing to move ahead with developing a solution to solve the problem without identifying the evidence of its existence and impact on the organization.
  • 27. Yellow Light – Example 2 • I think we might have a problem. It seems that even if we identified a solution that meets your needs, there is little chance that it will get approval from the CEO. What do you think we should do? • The customer mentions that the CEO has not been favorable to the project in the past.
  • 28. Yellow Light – Example 3 • I can’t help but thinking that you have been successful in addressing issues like this using an internal resource in the past. Is that an option you are considering? • You feel like you are being asked to design a solution that will end up just being done by the customers internal resources.
  • 29. Yellow Light – Example 4 • I have a concern. It seems the cost of a solution may be larger than the problem itself and it makes little sense to continue moving ahead. Am I missing something? • You believe the cost of the solution your customer is asking for is larger than the cost of the problem it is intended to solve.
  • 30. Yellow Light – Example 5 • Could I check something out? I noticed a moment ago an expression on your face. I am unclear as to what was going through your mind. Would you mind sharing what it was you were thinking? • As you were asking a customer a question, you saw a look on her face that make you think she was displeased in some way.
  • 31. Yellow Light – Example 6 • I have a concern. Your question seems to indicated that you believe there should be no charge for an upgrade. Would you mind sharing why you might think that is the case? • Why would we incur costs if we do a Sage upgrade? Not questioning, just trying to understand.
  • 32. Yellow Light – Example 7 • I have a concern. I get the sense that even though this issue is clearly important to you, it is possible that others will not support it. Without that support there is a pretty good chance it will not be adopted. Do you share that concern? • You get a sense that the only person at your customer’s company who will feel the issue you have been talking about is truly important is your contact.
  • 33. Yellow Light – Example 8 • I have a concern. I don’t know if your CFO is like our CFO. However, at our company, even if everyone thinks there is a problem, there needs to be a business case backing up the request before he will allocate money. Could that be a possibility here? • Your customer does not want to take the time to develop a business case for the solution because, “everyone knows it is a problem.”
  • 34. Yellow Light – Example 9 I am concerned. In my experience it is only likely for an organization to move forward on resolving issues when they are 9’s or 10’s, rather than something that is a 6. Is that fair to say? • In an attempt to qualify the importance of a issue on a scale of 1 to 10, the customer indicates they are a 6.
  • 35. Yellow Lights – Example 10 • I would like to check something out with you. It sounds like you already have a sense of who is going to do this work. Am I off target? • You begin to feel that a decision has already be made to outsource this issue to someone else.
  • 36. Yellow Light – Example 11 • I think we have a problem. It seems that even if we develop a solution that meets your needs, there is reason to doubt a decision will be made one way or the other. What is your sense? • You have done your best trying to elicit the steps your customer will take to make a decision, and it is unclear to both of you what will happen.

Hinweis der Redaktion

  1. We do. Outsourcing is a hot topic today and it means different things to different people. Would it be OK if I asked you about what outsourcing means in your specific context?
  2. I believe this is absolutely doable. However, before we get started, would it be OK if I asked you a few questions about what the expected results of this would be?
  3. Sure, I would be happy to send you a proposal, but before we do, can I ask what exactly do you mean by “generic part numbers” as this sometimes has different meanings depending on the context?
  4. I do, and in my experience, customers mean many different things when they say “increasing the security.” Would you give me some background on specifically what you are looking to do?
  5. I’d be glad to offer my thoughts. Help me out. Can I ask what it means when you say you want to improve communications internally and externally, what is going on?
  6. We can definitely get you there. To do so successfully, I’ll need to know more about what is it you really want to accomplish. Would it be OK if we talked about that for a few minutes?
  7. Doug Higgs - 2013
  8. And we would love to help. At this point it would be presumptive of me to define what a new environment means. Can we perhaps start with a definition of your desired end state?
  9. I’ll be happy to give you price once I understand exactly what you want to accomplish and at this point it would be presumptive of me to guess. Would you mind giving me some details about the holes you are trying to fill?
  10. Before I sharpen my pencil, let me sharpen my definition of what you what to achieve. Would it be OK to talk about what kinds of remote support are you looking for?
  11. Fair enough, SaaS is a hot topic right now. However, it would be presumptive of me at this point to offer my opinion since SaaS environments have different definitions. Could you give me yours?
  12. We are hearing that from many of our customers. Of course, they all calculate TCO using different measures. Can you tell me how are you defining it?
  13. The first thing that I’ll say about my experience is that everyone who asks for integrations with Sage 100 has something different in mind. Can you tell me about why you want to integrate so I can make my comments more relevant?
  14. We would be glad to offer our assistance. However, at this point it would be presumptive of me to offer a solution. Can you tell me what your CIO’s definition of “improved flow of information is?”
  15. Our belief is that processes and technology are interdependent. However, before I say we do BPR, can I ask what is BPR in the context of your situation?
  16. We can definitely provide an ODBC link but at this point it would be presumptive of me to say I can get the data you need. Can you say what might be the benefit of having this information as a link?
  17. Very likely. Before I give you a definitive answer, could you tell me what you are including in your current CRM hardware infrastructure?
  18. S4 = Spreadsheet Server Salesperson
  19. I have a concern. If we have no evidence or sense of impact of the problem, somebody, somewhere is going to seriously question the validity of this project. Is that possible?
  20. I think we might have a problem. It seems that even if we identified a solution that meets your needs, there is little chance that it will get approval from the CEO. What do you think we should do?
  21. I can’t help but thinking that you have been successful in addressing issues like this using an internal resource in the past. Is that an option you are considering?
  22. I have a concern. It seems the cost of a solution may be larger than the problem itself and it makes little sense to continue moving ahead. Am I missing something?
  23. Could I check something out? I noticed a moment ago an expression on your face. I am unclear as to what was going through your mind. Would you mind sharing what it was you were thinking?
  24. I have a concern. Your question seems to indicated that you believe there should be no charge for an upgrade. Would you mind sharing why you might think that is the case?
  25. I have a concern. I get the sense that even though this issue is clearly important to you, it is possible that others will not support it. Without that support there is a pretty good chance it will not be adopted. Do you share that concern?
  26. I have a concern. I don’t know if your CFO is like our CFO. However, at our company, even if everyone thinks there is a problem, there needs to be a business case backing up the request before he will allocate money. Could that be a possibility here?
  27. I am concerned. In my experience it is only likely for an organization to move forward on resolving issues when they are 9’s or 10’s, rather than something that is a 6. Is that fair to say?
  28. I would like to check something out with you. It sounds like you already have a sense of who is going to do this work. Am I off target?
  29. I think we have a problem. It seems that even if we develop a solution that meets your needs, there is reason to doubt a decision will be made one way or the other. What is your sense?