Graham Kutner

Graham Kutner-Simon
do '1st person signifier' start a new thread, or continue on the thread 'I' was on last
evening?
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Viv Westbrook either one is good. what do you mean by 1st person signifier?
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Graham Kutner-Simon 'I' ! ;)
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Graham Kutner-Simon Good evening Viv.
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Viv Westbrook Good evening. So what's all this I in quote marks?
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Graham Kutner-Simon I is just a thought... it doesn't correspond to anything
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Damon Kamda Evening, Graham.
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Viv Westbrook How come everyone say's I, then? I did this, I think that, I feel
such and such? If I is just a thought.... why do so many people talk as thought it is real?
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Graham Kutner-Simon training perhaps?
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Graham Kutner-Simon its not clear... none of this is clear at present
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Graham Kutner-Simon & the mind seems to be engaged with it as well, trying to
make sense of it
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Graham Kutner-Simon - this was a BIG block last night to just LOOKING
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Damon Kamda The mental engagement you mean?

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Viv Westbrook What was a block? How I comes to be taken as the doer?
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Graham Kutner-Simon yes, mental engagement.... last night's investigation was
reread this morning & what was being pointed to was much clearer
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Damon Kamda Perhaps you need to slow down a bit.
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Damon Kamda Stop treating this as something to be figured out or understood
intellectually.
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Graham Kutner-Simon sorry, that is misleading... it was clear in the dialogue, but
an almost reflexive drive to understand / represent mentally stood in the way of JUST
looking
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Viv Westbrook And what is LOOKING?
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Graham Kutner-Simon there is looking, that is all
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Graham Kutner-Simon thoughts & sensations, including a sense of a centre
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Graham Kutner-Simon but with a mental recognition that this centre cannot be
found
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Viv Westbrook what recognises it?
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Graham Kutner-Simon nothing... these are just different types of thoughts &
sensations
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Graham Kutner-Simon they don't refer to anything or from anything
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Damon Kamda Then slow down...
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Graham Kutner-Simon meaningless, no other reference point
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Viv Westbrook What happened to I? Where did it go?!
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Graham Kutner-Simon just shit happening
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Damon Kamda And look...
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Graham Kutner-Simon I-thoughts come & go
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Graham Kutner-Simon they just don't refer to anything in particular
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Damon Kamda If you can actually see anything else than different types of
thoughts & sensations.
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Viv Westbrook Go back to last week Graham and to right now - is there anything
different?
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Graham Kutner-Simon that's the disturbing thing.... not really... only intellectually
- its only skin deep - the marrow & the bones feel the same
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Damon Kamda What's disturbing about that, Graham?
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Graham Kutner-Simon Damon is right, too fast, too mental, more looking is req'd
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Graham Kutner-Simon there is an expectation of a change in the nature of the
mental appearances
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Damon Kamda Uh...
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Viv Westbrook yes. But what could change? If you have always been a thought -
what would be different - other than the recognition of that?

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Damon Kamda By which you mean...?
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Graham Kutner-Simon it is a little more natural not to worry about the I now...
result.... there is slightly less reaction to mental events
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Viv Westbrook is there an I?
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Graham Kutner-Simon ok... simply put, there is no great feeling of RELIEF or
freedom
no breakthrough experience & the appearances seem the same
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Damon Kamda Forget about all that stuff now, these expectations are only getting
in the way.
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Graham Kutner-Simon the same thought occurred here!
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Damon Kamda This is not about results. It's about recognizing what's true.
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Graham Kutner-Simon ;)
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Damon Kamda Is there an I in your experience?
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Graham Kutner-Simon good point, but nonetheless small desires arise for a
reduction in the feeling of dissatisfaction & an increase in the feeling of freedom
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Graham Kutner-Simon there is still a reflex when writing to say 'I', but...
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Damon Kamda Yeah, whatever. There's an itch arising in my ass at the moment.
All irrelevant for this.
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Graham Kutner-Simon I dont know how to answer that?! ;)
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Graham Kutner-Simon how would you like the question to be answered...
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Viv Westbrook Desires arise. Itches in the arse arise. What does those?
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Viv Westbrook And it's not about what answer we want - it's about what is true.
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Graham Kutner-Simon dunno... the question seems more like who is the victim of
this world
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Graham Kutner-Simon & there isn't one; there are thoughts & sensations
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Damon Kamda Yes
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Damon Kamda And you? Where in this picture are you?
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Graham Kutner-Simon dropped what was to be said...
at the moment the impulse is: what can be done / seen to make this feel 'deeper'
more penetrative, more transformative...
the thought comes: ok, it is seen that there is no 'I', but how come it all feels the
same...
the desire for an 'improvement' in life is present!
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Machiel van Dijk Who the bleeb told you the appearances would change?!
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Graham Kutner-Simon which of course is a desire which is guaranteed to create
dissatisfaction - as it creates a mental 'gap' between what is here & a mental projection
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Damon Kamda Whose life?
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Graham Kutner-Simon the one here, the one.... which feels like mine
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Graham Kutner-Simon insofar as there is some sense of continuity
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Graham Kutner-Simon yesterday, today, last week...
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Graham Kutner-Simon memory
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Damon Kamda You need to slow down, Graham, and focus.
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Graham Kutner-Simon direct 'me'
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Damon Kamda Can you find, in your experience, anything other than thoughts
and sensations?
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Damon Kamda Can you find a you that is anything other than a thought and/or
sensation?
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Damon Kamda Slow down, let all the mental babble do its thing, and look at what
is thought or sensed to be you.
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Graham Kutner-Simon just the mental assumption that there is an I who is
experiencing this...
its just a feeling...
just the sense of witness
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Graham Kutner-Simon but the witness cannot be found
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Damon Kamda Ok, keep going.
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Graham Kutner-Simon bodily sensations
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Graham Kutner-Simon sounds, bodily sensations, nothing else
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Damon Kamda Just look around whereever you are at, inside, outside, the whole
of the experience and tell me where you are in all of this.
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Graham Kutner-Simon there is a sense of location in the head (surprise, surprise!)
but it is just a sense
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Graham Kutner-Simon it doesn't change anything, it is just another feeling
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Graham Kutner-Simon there is a sense of a reduction in mental tension & an
allowing of things to flow as they are
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Graham Kutner-Simon if no I can be found, then there can be no agenda to be
followed b/c there's no one for there to be an agenda for & no one to whom an agenda
could apply
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Viv Westbrook Kaching!
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Graham Kutner-Simon cheque please Mr. False Assumption...
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Graham Kutner-Simon this is seen, but the annoying desire for things to feel & be
better continues to appear! ;)
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Machiel van Dijk cool but in current experience, can an I be seen?
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Graham Kutner-Simon it may simply be a matter of spending more time with is...
like Shunryu Suzuki says: you stay out in the fog & gradually you are soaked
through...
except... there is no-one who is out in the fog, or soaked through...
but nonetheless, perhaps the truth of this has to be continually experienced before
the appearances change
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Graham Kutner-Simon how could it Machiel, it never existed
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Damon Kamda So you see this.
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Damon Kamda Now test it.
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Damon Kamda In memory, every situation in which a you seemed to be there.
What was there?
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Damon Kamda Every thought of a possible future in which a you might be there-
what is there?
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Graham Kutner-Simon identification can arise, but it doesn't apply to anything
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Damon Kamda "perhaps the truth of this has to be continually experienced before
the appearances change" - Graham: have you ever actually experienced a self?
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Graham Kutner-Simon Damon, it feels more like a mental understanding than a
genuine insight... something feels 'left'
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Graham Kutner-Simon just the thought of it....
a nagging feels persists that it is the mind which is answering these questions....
that thoughts are jumping in before experience can respond
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Damon Kamda You're waiting for your dopamine shot?
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Graham Kutner-Simon laughs! perhaps!
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Graham Kutner-Simon where's the reward?! ;) laughs!
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Graham Kutner-Simon insight / truth usually tastes of something!
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Damon Kamda What do you mean, usually?
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Graham Kutner-Simon very perceptive Damon, & very amusing!
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Machiel van Dijk just feelings and thoughts of something left nothing more
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Graham Kutner-Simon in previous experience... mental / physical relief/release or

some 'feeling' of rightness was present....
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Damon Kamda What do you mean with previous experience?
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Graham Kutner-Simon except for the only time when NoMind was experienced....
at that moment, the mind just stopped... no thoughts...
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Damon Kamda Wait a minute
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Graham Kutner-Simon in memory
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Damon Kamda You have experienced NoMind?
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Graham Kutner-Simon which is assumed to refer to experiences from a past
in answer to your question: who would have experienced NoMind???
but there was an experience of that, yes
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Graham Kutner-Simon Enlightenment Intensive... BRILLIANT, BRILLIANT
process - the most loved of experiences...
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Damon Kamda So you did some excercises that gave you a nice buzz earlier and
now you're disappointed that you're not feeling special?
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Graham Kutner-Simon laughs! as the punch to the non-existent stomach is
made!...
yes there is desire-greed for some nice feelings...
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Graham Kutner-Simon in short, yes!
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Graham Kutner-Simon ;)
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Machiel van Dijk thoughts will go on how else to communicate?
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Damon Kamda Well, this is not about bringing anyone to any particular
experience. Just a simple recognition of something that has always been the case and will
always be the case: there is no self.
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Graham Kutner-Simon sure, I get this...
as per the Spiritual Flyers - naturally there is an expectation of transformation!
HAHA! the great promise of feeling-better!
laughs!
truth or spiritual hedonism?!
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Damon Kamda That's exactly what people are after, simply feeling good about an
illusory self.
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Graham Kutner-Simon except that there are no people surely?!
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Damon Kamda About an hour ago, viv asked this question: "How come everyone
say's I, then? I did this, I think that, I feel such and such? If I is just a thought.... why do
so many people talk as thought it is real?" Any thoughts on this now?
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Damon Kamda There's human beings, aren't there?
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Graham Kutner-Simon I's come into the world... it is not clear why...
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Graham Kutner-Simon are there? (it seems so)
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Graham Kutner-Simon 'things are not what they seem, nor are they otherwise'?!
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Graham Kutner-Simon it seems like a checking question is being presented...
'I' would say that it does SEEM like there is an 'I'...
- but if it is searched for, it isn't found
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Graham Kutner-Simon a 'trick of the light' so to speak...
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Graham Kutner-Simon hmmm... the body persists (for the moment) as do its
needs...

& thoughts come & go... this is all
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Graham Kutner-Simon Can 'you' offer a challenge Damon?
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Machiel van Dijk Yeah it seems sure,just thougts of an assumed self
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Damon Kamda There is no you! Is this true, Graham?
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Graham Kutner-Simon there is a body which seems like me
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Graham Kutner-Simon seems like the instrument of experience.
This body seems to have had a past & is imagined to have a future...
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Damon Kamda "Instrument of experience"?
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Machiel van Dijk all cells change every 7 years, how can it be you?
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Graham Kutner-Simon haha! very good Damon! more thorns of understanding!!
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Graham Kutner-Simon It may not be me Machiel, but it seems that sensation
flows from it
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Graham Kutner-Simon altho that is also another assumption!
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Graham Kutner-Simon when eyes are open there are 'external' things...
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Graham Kutner-Simon when eyes are closed just sounds & feelings
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Graham Kutner-Simon haha! its like a hurricane, a twister - there seems to be a
centre... but there's nothing there!
- how strange!
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Damon Kamda As for challenges, Graham. This isn't some sort of trivia quiz or
intellectual discussion. The only challenge that's left is for you to check this, ruthlessly, in
real, actual life.
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Damon Kamda If it is actually really true that there is no self.
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Machiel van Dijk :)
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Damon Kamda Not as a concept or a theory, an understanding or an insight.
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Damon Kamda But as actual reality.
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Damon Kamda Check it, keep checking it. Really look into it.
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Damon Kamda If there is no you and there has never and never will be a you. The
implications of this are quite... uh... well, there are implications, aren't there?
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Graham Kutner-Simon agreed.... what was sought is clear now - an insight to
relieve the anxiety of being a self...
the expectation was that when the bogey man was proved to be imagined the
nightmares would go away...
apologies for the feeling of intellectual arrogance which presented...
there is no interest in intellectual shitetalk...
just a genuine desire for truth & freedom...
the sense of arrogance was/is a manifestation of the disappointment that freedom
is not felt as a breakthrough once & for all
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Graham Kutner-Simon yes, there are implications... which may take while to seep
through...
it was hoped that there would be flashbulbs & a red carpet -
not from anyone else...
but like Gollum in LOTR - he was free of the voices for a few minutes - before
they came back
& freedom has been experienced HERE many times...
but somehow the 'voice of I' continued to reappear & be bought
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Damon Kamda no need to apologize, Graham. You've been honest and to-the-

point. Besides, intellectual arrogance just happens, no?
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Graham Kutner-Simon yes, the reality is that an easy-fix is what is being sought
for this life
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Damon Kamda Yes, it will sink in. Keep testing it. But as far as I can tell, there's
a real clarity now.
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Graham Kutner-Simon & it isn't going to happen like that.... the knots have to be
untangled through attention & possibly uncomfortable choices
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Graham Kutner-Simon & feelings of sadness are present as imagination imagines
the difficulty of what lies ahead...
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Graham Kutner-Simon more 'free-dwelling' will now follow & let THIS flow
through & through & on & on....
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Damon Kamda Ok, Graham. Bed-time here. Take care and test the living hell out
of this. Nite!
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Graham Kutner-Simon thank you Damon Kamda <hug!>
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Elena Nezhinsky cool, very cool. Love these guys - come, look, get free. This is
why we are here. 24/7
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Graham Kutner

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