The Entrepreneurs Radio Show 086 Michael Michalowicz

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW
Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business
Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show Page 1 of 22
Episode #86: Michael Michalowicz
On this episode, Travis speaks with successful entrepreneur Michael Michalowicz. Michael is a best-
selling author and business owner, who established businesses and was even able to sell one business
for millions of dollars. His experiences made him who is now and he gladly shares what he went
through and how entrepreneurs could learn from his past mistakes.
Travis and Mike share their secrets to success and how to make businesses thrive through hard work
and dedication to your business. According to Mike, an entrepreneur should first find their purpose in
establishing their business and then finding a niche where they can concentrate their efforts and
resources on. This way your business will flourish because they're doing what they love to do and they
have a well-defined market that will provide them with a constant stream of revenue. Mike also shares
his top 5 things entrepreneurs should focus on in building their business in today's economy. These are
just some of the vital things that entrepreneurs can benefit from in this episode of the Entrepreneur's
Radio Show.
Michael Michalowicz – Simple Strategies
for Growing Your Business
Travis: Hey, it's Travis Lane Jenkins welcome to episode number 86 of the Entrepreneur's Radio
Show. A production of Rock Star Entrepreneur Network, .com, where each and every episode I will
deconstruct the path to success for each of our guest, for those of you that listen all the time you
already know that. And I do that so that we can see what they've done to become successful because I
feel like that's very instructive to see how others have blazed the trail of their life and their success.
Now, today I'm going to introduce you to rock star entrepreneur Michael Michalowicz. And during our
interview we're going to talk about his personal story as we always do and how he was able to
systematically build several multi-million dollar businesses with no experience, no contacts, and no
savings. Plus, Michael is going to share with you his top 5 things you should focus on in building your
business in today's economy. So as always, it's going to be a great episode. Also, be sure and stay
with us until the very end if you can because I want to share some personal inspiration with you from
me to you. Plus, I want to talk to you about your business.
Before we get started, let me have you-- assuming you're not driving. Close your eyes, imagine you
had a team of experts to come in that specialize in building tiny, little businesses into extremely
profitable businesses. And imagine this team would create your message and your marketing that

positions you as an authority in your field. They also refine or create your overall strategy in your
business so that your profits could increase to 3-400% of what they are now. How would that change
your business? That look deep into your business and figure out what's holding you back from moving
to the next level. They've set-up your automation for prospects so that the prospects are constantly
being conditioned to know, like, and trust you that set-up your automation to your existing client, you
get the idea. All of the things that would go on behind the scenes that makes your business extremely
profitable. Well, I'm going to tell you how you could have a chance to win something like that, where a
team would come in and do all of those things for you and lots more. And one of the best parts is it's
free to enter in to the contest. So, again, hang in with me until the very end and I'll tell you more about
that.
Now, before we get started I want to remind you that there's 2 ways you can take these interviews with
you on the go and the 2 preferred methods that I use and that I mentioned that are easiest, in my
opinion, is iTunes or Stitcher, although both of them have clunky search functions. So just go to
rockstarentrepreneurnetwork.com, click on the iTunes or the Stitcher button right there on the menu bar
and it will take you directly to the podcast where you can subscribe to the show there. That eliminates a
lot of the clicks and just makes it easier for you to do that. So, now that we've got all of these things out
of the way, let's get down to business, what do you say? Without further ado, welcome my friend
Michael to the show. Michael?
Michael: Well, thank you for having me Travis.
Travis: You betcha. I appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule.
Michael: Oh my gosh, my pleasure. I'm a little fired up for this. So let's rock and roll.
Travis: Yeah. So, listen, do you mind giving us the back-story of kind of how you got to where you are
today?
Michael: Yeah. So, my history as an entrepreneur, but it was something I never intended to do. I
graduated college, I'm a G Tech graduate, go Hokies. And came back home, I couldn't get a job. Not a
career-type job, I got a job working at a computer store. And I remember working there for about 2
years, and one night I went out for drinks with one of my colleagues and I'm like, "What are we doing?
We work so hard selling computers, or printers, and hooking them up for people. But the boss sits in his
office and he takes all the money off of our sweat and effort. I know more than he does, I'm starting my
own business." And what was interesting is when you have liquid courage, 5 or 6 Budweiser’s in you,
it's very easy to do. So, I literally left this drunken, slurry, disgusting message for my boss that night,
saying, "I quit. I'm starting my own company. You're a jerk, living off of my sweat. I'm going to teach you
a lesson," basically was the disgusting message with some profanity thrown in. And the next day in

sobriety. I did not drive home by the way. But the next day in sobriety, I'm like, "Oh my god, what did I
just do, I'm such an idiot." And I went back to my boss and said, "Listen, I was drunk, I'm an idiot, I'm
sorry-- Please accept me back." And he says, "Sorry kid, you're on your own." And he said, "Leave,
you're fired. By the way, everyone in this industry, I'm going to tell them about what you've said and
what you've done. You're never going to be able to find a job in this area in computers again." And he
did, he called everyone and said, "Watch out for this kid, he's a loose canon." Now, I had to be
committed to what I said I was going to do. So, I was 24 years old, I was starting my first company. I
was already married, I already had a child, and the pressure was overwhelming. I had to make this
successful immediately. But what is fascinating about that is when you have no alternative but success.
Fear becomes an amazing motivator, I worked so hard, so relentlessly to make sure that I was making
enough money to feed everyone's mouths.
Travis: Right.
Michael: And I wouldn't say I was passionate or any of that stuff. I was scared and fear drove me
initially, over time I fell in love with the process of entrepreneurship and became confident and
aspirational in what I think I could do as an entrepreneur. I grew a couple of companies that way and
then fell into my absolute passion which is authorship and writing about how we all can be authentically
ourselves, express ourselves authentically through business, and make a great living doing it.
Travis: I love that story. So, what were you doing, what did you decide to open up as a business very
first, right away?
Michael: Well, first thing I did was I opened my own computer store, effectively, I dig computer
networks. And the reason I did that is like, well that's what I was doing, I "know" computers. What I
didn't know is the doing part is the smallest piece of it. Managing the business, selling to clients, all
those aspects which I wasn't really doing before, that is the core of the business. Because to sustain I
had to keep selling, I had to manage the money, the cash flow, I had to bring on employees, manage
people. So, I didn't know that and it was learning by fire but I did it in computer networks.
Travis: Interesting. You point out something that a lot of people don't realize is the skill set that you
need to go into business is not the skill set normally that makes you successful.
Michael: Yeah, isn't that funny? And it becomes a trap. So the early stages of entrepreneurship is
selling and doing, because all the other stuff becomes irrelevant if you don't have any clients, you're not
making any money. Don't worry about your accounting, you don't have any.
Travis: Right.

Michael: But once you start selling then you have to deliver on what you're doing. But many
entrepreneurs get trapped there, many entrepreneurs don't scale beyond themselves, maybe an
employee or a part-timer or two. Because they think that is what entrepreneurship is, sell it, do it. But
the next level of growth is sell-manage. So most entrepreneurs become the best sales people for their
own companies, they have to then get out of the doing it phase. They have to do it in the beginning,
they have to, because they can't afford to hire someone else to do it. But once you're a certain size, you
have to remove yourself and to have someone else do it, but you have to be also putting the systems in
place, so they do it consistently with how you were doing it. That's where deliverable consistency
comes. If someone else comes on and they just do it their own way, you have inconsistency, it
confuses clients, it can cause problems. So, you have to turn to sell-do. And then, to get to the next
level, you have to have someone else do the selling and someone else do the doing, you have to do
the managing, the management of the culture, the systems behind the scenes. Its stuff that if left to be
done on its own, the cultures kind of forms itself and there's no vision and direction, and gets out of
control. And, as a company gets big-- I've grown companies, my last company we're running for seven
and a half million when I sold it, I had 30 employees on board. As my company was growing there, the
vision thing isn't like, "Oh, I want to be big and successful, it's how do we make it a vision or reality, and
planning and executing. There's a lot more work that goes into it than I ever expect. But you do have to
be able to transition from different stages in different phases of being an entrepreneur to grow.
Travis: Right. So how long on this journey before you started finding a high level of success, and I
guess high level of success is relative. But when do you really feel like you took off and made it, maybe
hit the million dollar mark as an entrepreneur?
Michael: It was interesting; the million dollar mark is a big threshold, right? So when my first company
surpassed a million, I remember, I didn't even know it happened until the accountant, and this is
typically what happens for most entrepreneur, came and said, "Hey, congratulations, you guys did over
a million dollars this year." And I remember high with a few people and say, "It's awesome." And then I
looked at my bank account and said, "Holy shit, I got nothing in there. I made a million bucks and I owe
all these taxes, and I had this profit but where's the money?" So, I came and realize that financial
success isn't top line, it's actually profitability. And I've grown business that do half a million dollars but
have a 50 or 60% bottom-line, I am way more proud of those that my company that did seven and a
half million yet was barely doing 5% bottom-line. So, I realized health is attributed to profitability and
sustainability. But there is a couple of key moments, breaking a million is a cool thing and I'm as excited
for the day. Selling my second company to a Fortune 500, that's a day I'll never forget. I'll never forget
the fanfare slide and check across the table, the big meeting for all the partners flying around the
country, setting up a brand new office in New York, becoming an employee for the first time in my life
since that computer store, now working for a Fortune 500. That was a very big success. But ultimately,
just to kind of wrap up the story, the ultimate success I have found for myself is defining my life's

purpose and having my business be an expression of it. That regards to how much revenues coming
and even profitability, if I wasn't satisfying what I've defined as my kind of my purpose in life through my
business, ultimately, my business became awake. But once I defined "This is the impact I need to have
on other people" and my business is a mechanism to get there, it's become way more successful
because it satisfies my heart, my emotion, and ironically, is the most profitable business too. Because
once you're doing what you love to do, you become really masterful at it, and people who are masters
at what they do are very efficient typically, and can make a big premium on what they do.
Travis: Right. So, how long did it take for you to get that clarity as far as the alignment with finding what
your purpose is? Because that's some deep clarity that comes several years after being in the
entrepreneurial pursuit. It took me 15 years to get there. I can be a slow learner at times because I'm
caught in the success trap where I'm doing just good enough that to where I'm the top 5% in the nation,
but still, I'm not doing really what I'm meant to do, on a passion level and on a purpose level.
Michael: Yup. For me, I think the numbers are similar-- First I had to discover for myself that there is a
purpose greater than making money. I thought business was all about BE BIG BE RICH. And once I
figured that out it took me quite a few years of being an entrepreneur to discover that. Then I knew
there was something more important, something that fit in to the puzzle of being big and rich, I think
that's a good thing by the way, because I think money and size is a vehicle for delivering more of
yourself to put out your purpose even more. Mother Teresa is a great example, she was a billionaire
because of the money she managed and the change she had. She decided not to keep it for herself,
but she had a huge impact, and I think we can do our own version of it. But for me once I said, "Okay,
there's got to be something else, there's got to be a purpose," I had it figured out. And it took me easily
5 or 6 years to kind of start connecting the dots of my own life history and putting into alignment. And
so, here's what I've discovered. If you think you have a life's purpose and I believe we all do, your life's
purpose if you don't know what it is, is to ask yourself constantly what is my life's purpose? I think that's
a phase we have to go through, we have to constantly inquire to ourselves, "What am I here for?
What's the real impact I meant to have?" And the more you ask yourself, be God-given or self-given, I
don't care. I think you'll find clarity about it and then you'll find this emotional fortitude and excitement
that every day you wake up that your business is now amplifying what you're doing. And there's one
final thought. I know you're living your life's purpose through your business when you call your business
your soul mate.
Travis: Okay, I like that. So, for me, I went through a journey to where-- I come from a background to
where we didn't have much, I didn't go without shoes but we didn't have any extra. And so, I'd built this
business and I had experienced the levels of success that very few people ever experience. And I kept
asking myself, "Is this really it?" I'm 33 and I'm travelling, playing pebble beach and other stuff. And
while it was cool, it wasn't fulfilling. And so there was a hollow feeling inside and I thought, really, is this

it? Did you have a moment in life like that that brought you some more clarity? Because I find normally
it's the deeps that bring you the clarity rather than the highs, is that true for you?
Michael: Oh my, gosh! Yes. I'll tell you a story and I will choke up because I've shared this before and I
struggle sharing it. But I think it's important. I think it's actually so important in my next book. I'm writing
a book called Profit First, I'm putting the story right in the beginning, and this is it. After I sold my
second company, my second company was in computer crime investigation, and we got among other
cases and trials, we got the ENRON trial, part of it. We weren't the only forensic company in there but
we got a substantial part of it. And my little business at that time was doing maybe a million dollars.
Once we got ENRON just was on the front of the newspapers, and we started bringing on case after
case. Christie Brinkley hired us, and wealthy people started hiring us when they had a case where
computer evidence was relevant. And I sold that company to Robert Half International that was the
Fortune 500, and became a millionaire. And by the way, when I say millionaire like I reached a million
dollars. It wasn't like I was like, "I had a hundred million dollars to my name", I just reached a million
dollars. But for me I never had achieved that personal status in my life and something happened to me
in that moment that I doubt would never happened but it did. I said, "When I ever achieve financial
wealth, I will never be that arrogant guy that needs to show it off with the cars and stuff." But sure
enough, I did. I first bought my Viper, and I bought the Viper because I said, "When I was a college kid,
I always wanted to have a Viper so this is my treat." And I said, "Well, you can't have a Viper in your
driveway without a brand new Land Rover," so I got that. And then like, "The perfect complement to
Land Rover is a BMW," so I got that. 3 cars, 1 day. I move in to this ridiculously expensive town in New
Jersey, I do all these things that are all about not satisfying me but showing off my significant. The
biggest thing I did, perhaps the biggest mistake was I said, "Now, that I know how to grow businesses
I'll teach others by investing in them. I'll then become an angel investor and start-up all these
businesses." And I started investing just by throwing money away is the better term to all these start-
ups. I had no clue what I was doing, and anyone that I'd meet that had a business idea, I'm like, "Oh,
that's good. I'll help you grow it. Let's part." Well, it was 2 years Travis from when I sold that company to
when I had lost everything. And I'll never forget the call, it was Valentine’s Day, 2008, my phone rings,
Keith, my accountant's on the phone, and he says, "Hey Mike, great news. I've finished up your taxes
because there wasn't much activity this year. You're one of my easy returns. You're going to owe about
$50,000 in taxes this year." And I remember he said that and the wind got knocked out of me, because
I only had $20,000 left in my name. Literally, I had whittled everything down. I asked Keith, I said,
"Keith, what happens when you can't pay your taxes? I never not paid my taxes." And he jokes, and he
goes, "You know Mike, you go to jail if you don't pay taxes, that's it." And he thought he was kind of
kidding around with me but it was dead serious, I couldn't pay my taxes, I might go to jail over this, or I
already have some crazy payment plan to figure this out. I went home that day Travis and I was
sobbing in the car, enough that I pull over to kind of clear myself, just so angry with myself for being
such an idiot to lose all these. I get home at the Michalowicz House, my family, we like to sit around the

table on Valentine’s Day and talk about how we all love each other. So there's not really cards passed
around but we have a dinner together and just share appreciation for each other. And I come home and
my eyes are red, I look a stonewall, my family looks at me and goes, "What's going on?" And I start
crying again, and I said, "I've lost it all." So, my three children, man talk about humbling. My three
children and my wife were sitting there and I'm explaining how the guy who's meant to protect and
provide for the family is the guy who raped the family’s funds, who spit everything frivolously, and now
has put us in a compromised position where we can't afford the house we're in, we can't afford the cars
in the driveway, we can't afford to keep going to the schools you're going. So I'm crying and everyone's
silent, so shocked. And my little daughter, she was about 9 years old at that time, she runs out of the
room because she's scared, and I started to run out, I said, "God, I want to run away so badly right
now." A minute later, she runs back in with her piggy bank and she puts it right in front of me Travis,
and she slides it over to me and says, "Daddy, we're going to make it." And that moment humbled me
so much because what I realized is that life is about contribution. My daughter was teaching me that it's
not just how much money you have chest-pounding thing. It's giving the most of who you are, it's
sincerely contributing, it's authentically contributing to others, giving all ourselves. My daughter was
giving all she had to support our family. And I said, "Oh my God, my mission in life is not to accumulate
money so I can show off. Look how freaking' rich I am. My job in my life is to give everything I know
away to everyone I can to impact their lives." And don't get me wrong, money is a critical component,
that's the lifeblood of our businesses. We need it to further contribute. If we have no money, we're
strap. So we have to form a business that's about contribution and generates revenue so we can
further contribute. Well, the fight out of that dark period has been a long, long struggle, but I've gotten
out of it. Better than ever but I'm healthier than ever. That moment was my defining moment and it
changed my perspective forever. I am not impressed by a single car I have, I am not impressed by
anyone else's cars now. It's not about that stuff. Listen, I want to live comfortably, I want my family to be
comfortable, but I want to contribute, contribute, contribute. I want to give the world authentically who I
am, and serve others in the biggest way possible. That is the moment that changed everything for me.
Travis: That's a great story, I know, I've been through something similar like that. And while it's tough to
hear a story like that because I know what it takes out of you, and that's an understatement. But that's
where the shift happens, there's a shift, for me, when you're on your knees there's no room for BS.
Michael: No, you can't fake it anymore. You know it's funny someone said to me, he said, "Hey Mike,
has God ever spoken to you?" And I said, "Yeah that was the day." And he said, "God didn't speak to
me, God kicked me in the nuts." Sometimes you need that and that brought this whole new awareness
of what our mission is as entrepreneurs.
Travis: Well, you know, so I've been through the Lean Start-up just like you to where I'm out selling it,
I'm out doing it, and there's no room for fears always present, but there's a very little room for it

because you've got to get things done. And there's a very, it's hard to describe, but when you're
building a business like that there's no room for BS there either, although it's a different way. You're
performing, you're executing, you're seeing instantly what is and is not working. And you're dialing
things in, you're changing, it's dynamic, and there's very little error because you're constantly dialing it
in. And then so, in the flipside of that, when I built a business and it was very large, where the BS came
in was people and me. Me not being in touch with what's really working anymore, what is not working
anymore, surrounding myself with yes people, all those other things. When you build this big ivory
tower and you're no longer near where the river meets the road, it's hard to see what is or is not
working, and that's where all the BS comes from, or it did for me. Is that a good way of explaining it,
and the way that it went down for you as well?
Michael: Yeah, my mentality up to that day was bigger is better. So I felt success was defined by size.
And I think many entrepreneurs are this way, the question ultimately comes out. "How big is your
business? What kind of business are you doing? How many employees do you have? What's the
revenue? What's the sales like?" They're all questions around size. And it such a trap that when my
business was growing and the financials were good at the bottom line, I would say, "Oh my God, I got
to sell more," like it was always about more. But the trap is this, as I was growing and seeing that, "Oh
my God, I can barely cover the monthly nut." I had a payroll, I remember a hundred thousand dollars a
month and growing. And when I hit a hundred thousand dollars a month in payroll I was like, "I got to be
selling baby." What was ironic is the more I sold, the more desperately I sold to anything and anyone,
the more diverse my service often became, it required even more expenses to deliver on it. I needed a
variety of employees that could do a huge volume of different things. The realization was when I sold to
a more focused group, when I reduced my offering, yeah, there may be less to sell but the expenses
dropped exponentially. And I was way more profitable by doing less.
Travis: Mike, you're reading out of my playbook. We went down the same path and you keep
expanding into neighboring verticals of your business just to try and feed the hungry beast, right?
Michael: Yeah. So, I'm writing this new book, Profit First, right? And what the opening, and you're the
first to hear this inside, the books not coming out for another 6 months or so. What I talk about in the
beginning is, my opening line says, "I'm Dr. Frankenstein" and I talk about the famous novel of
Frankenstein. And what it was is Dr. Frankenstein assembles together this miraculous thing, he
reanimates life, he stitches together this human and brings him to life. And to me that's what our
business is, we have this vague idea and we pull off this miracle where we create this business out of
nothing. So in the very early stages of our business, the first few weeks or months there's excitement
that we created something out of thin air like Dr. Frankenstein. Only to find out that this is a crazed
monster that it destroys everything in its path. So what happens from this miraculous moment as an
entrepreneur in the very beginning very quickly come to a realization that we have this cash eating,

crazed monster that we have to feed. We become enslaved to this business that we founded and do
everything just to keep feeding the monster.
Travis: Right.
Michael: We got to find a way to tame it and we just got stronger. The way to tame it is actually by
doing less, become the world's best in a very narrow vertical, the riches are in the niches, become
dominant in that. It requires less expenses, there's a lot more repeatability, repeatability means
systems can be introduced, that means efficiency is introduced, and that's where the profitability
comes. So you can turn this cash-eating monster into a cash cow, there's no question about it, but the
essence is you have to do fewer things, less variety in what you do, and become the world's best at it.
Travis: Excellent point. So for me, I'd went through the phase where I'd lost everything. So I went from
being affluent to a couple of months away from living under a bridge, and it was horrifying.
Michael: When did that happen to you, I'm curious?
Travis: About 7 years ago.
Michael: Oh, mine was about 6 years ago, we could've over that one.
Travis: Yeah, right around the same time. And so, for me I felt like it was the end of the world, and I'd
driven my business into bankruptcy, I've lost somebody very close to me and I didn't handle that very
well. And so, since I hadn't systemized my business, I drove it into bankruptcy, ultimately, through
neglect. And then, when I was trying to turn it around I invested our entire life's savings and cash
flowing it to turn it around and just couldn't do it.
Michael: Yeah,
Travis: And so, not only was the bank was the business worth nothing but I'd spent our entire
retirement also. And it's crushing to know that you've let down everybody, hundreds of people that work
for you, your family, everybody. Even your business becomes where you find your self value, or it did
for me.
Michael: Yeah.
Travis: And so, when your business crashes that means your dirt to yourself, right?
Michael: Yup, absolutely.
Travis: And it was a very tough moment for me to say the least. Now, I was fortunate enough once I
got my act together and decided to just focus on the positive and leave the negative behind to where

rebuilt my business and made it all back in 18 months. It took me 15 years to make it and I was lucky
enough to make it back in 18 months.
Michael: Wow, that's great, that's an amazing recovery.
Travis: It is, and I have also, you know what was most important for me, Mike, is I've found my
purpose, and my purpose was to teach, and mentor, and help others. And even that was a reason why
I created the show is because I felt like success is not portrayed in an honest light too often, or most
often. I see successful people portraying success in a way that it's flawless, that it's perfect, that
successful people are-- They're almost presented in a way that they're more brilliant than everyone
when they're really not.
Michael: Yeah.
Travis: We're very flawed; we've made a lot of mistakes. If there's any constant ingredient with all of
us, I think it's the tenacity. Would you agree with that?
Michael: I agree with that. And you know, where we see success is the cover of the magazines or the
equivalent on television or whatever, and I go through the airport and I see Mark Zuckerberg, or Sara
Blakely, or whatever it is, whoever the newest billionaire is on the cover, and this great success. And I
think we become jaded as entrepreneurs, defining that saying, "Oh that must be the only definition of
success." The thing is, those are like lottery winners, right? Out of all the entrepreneurs, the tens and
millions in the U.S., the hundreds of millions globally, it's very few that achieve that financial success.
But there's an undercurrent of entrepreneurs that are on purpose. They've defined who they are and
how they can impact the world. To me, that is the epitome of success. And there's countless ones of
them but because their definition of success doesn't mean-- actually it does mean. The magazine won't
pick that stuff up, it's not sexy, it's not like "Look at all these money. Look at the nice car next to them",
necessarily. So, I think we have to realize that just because we see the cover of Inc. Magazine that is
one definition of success. But I don't think it's such a happy one. I think the happiest one, again, is back
to where you define purpose for yourself and that you find a platform where you can express your
purpose. You may not become a billionaire, but you may make 4-$500,000 here, that'll never get you
on the cover of Inc. but that's an amazing lifestyle.
Travis: Right.
Michael: It's an amazing lifestyle. So focus on purpose first, the impact that you're trying to have. And
then, define ways in your business to make it profitable, where you can sustain and live a comfortable
life. Don't just define it by that one thing. Like if you don't have a billion dollar company, trust me you
didn't fail.

Travis: Yeah, it's just a series of dialing things in. Very few people get the rocket ride up like those
guys. It's a series of dialing things in, it's a series of mistakes. Okay, that doesn't work, let's try it this
way. Let's make this adjustment here. And it's a constant refinement. And I've said this several times
looking back over the 23 years, becoming an entrepreneur has been the single best self-help program I
have ever taken.
Michael: Yeah.
Travis: What do you think about that, do you agree?
Michael: Yeah, I agree. It can be absolutely brutal at times because you're saying perfectly, like you
can't wallow in your problems for long because you got to pay the bills, you got to keep the mojo going.
So, there's no question that it's unforgiving in that regard. You can't have a couple of off weeks together
necessarily. But conversely, it gives you the freedom to play it out the way you want played out. You
don't have to fall within the system someone else has defined. You got to define the system for yourself
and the way you're going to do it. So, it absolutely is the greatest platform in the world. That being said,
I don't suggest it for everyone. I think you have to have this born risk-taker on the inside, you have to be
willing to fail, and really willing not to wallow but to learn from your failure, and then you got a real shot
at making it work.
Travis: Yeah, good point. It's definitely not easy, is it? It's not easy, but in my book it's worth it.
Michael: Yeah, on my book I wouldn't change a thing. I'm sorry, I would change a few things, I would
have constant success and I don't have to worry. I would change that. But that's not the reality, and if
that was the reality, then everyone would do it. So, it is the ultimate way to discover yourself, and
express yourself, and enjoy your lifestyle to be yourself. All that stuff is there. But the trade off is you're
going to have some really, really terrifying times.
Travis: Right. So let's go down another path here. Let me ask you, what do you feel like are the top 5,
or 6, or 7 things that an entrepreneur needs to-- We could either go down the path to be successful in
business, or to find a purpose-driven business. Which path do you want to go down, or do you want to
marry those?
Michael: Well, maybe they're one and the same, because I think success is an amalgamation of have
a life's purpose, authentically be yourself, and have money to sustain it, and grow it.
Travis: Okay.
Michael: So, maybe it's one and the same thing. I think going through his list, the first thing is A, a
propensity toward action as oppose to analysis. I heard a great saying, I think it was Colin Powell who

said, "You can plan for a battle forever, but when the first bullet flies, the entire battle plan's out the
window." And the reason of this is because there's too many unpredictable variables. What I see is
aspiring entrepreneurs put huge amounts of planning into their business, then they open the door and
they found out that the clients they expected to become clients never do. Or that the economy just gets
pulled out from under them, or the building they're planning on using for the retail space burns down.
There's always variables you can't predict and then everything changes. So, step 1 is a little less
planning, a little more action, because the learning is from the action. Step 2 though is clarity of vision.
So you can totally not plan but then you're flip flopping around like a fish on a boat side, it just kind of
flaps around because it's out of water. I think you have to have clarity of vision. What is your purpose,
what's the impact you're trying to have? But what's it look like, where are you taking this once you're
going to end up looking like? So have a clear vision. The third thing I would suggest is you do have to
do interim, short term planning. I call it quarterly planning or tacking. Now, what this means is like when
a sailboat is crossing the water, what they do is they use a strategy called tacking. They put the boat in
the water, they identify that spot in the horizon they're targeting, but they don't go on a straight line
toward it, they have to leverage the way the wind is blowing, they need to avoid other boats and
obstacles, tides will push the boat around. So they go toward that spot in the horizon as directly as they
can, but after a period of time the wind is blowing them off, they realign the sails and they go toward
that spot in the horizon again. And every 2, 300 yards they're readjusting the boat almost like a zigzag
pattern, that's called tacking. When our business, once we have a clear vision, we need to tack our way
to get there, you'll never get there in a straight line. People say go from point A to point B, the shortest
distance is a straight line. Yeah, it's the shortest distance but it ain't the real distance, entrepreneurs
need to tack. So you plan for the short period of time, I usually plan for 3 months, what's the biggest
impact I can have in the next 3 months to get me toward that vision I have. Then after that period I
assess what's the environment like, what competition sprang up, how's the economy, how are my
clients looking, is there something I didn't know that I didn't know that I know now? And then I realign
my corporate boat and push forward.
Travis: Okay.
Michael: I think that's 3 things, so let me give you--
Travis: Yeah, it is.
Michael: Alright, so let me give you one more. Another thing is I think this awareness that different is
better. A lot of entrepreneurs think better is better. I look at my competition and say, "I got to do what
they're doing but better, that's how I attract customers." And from the customer's perspective, better is
not better, different is better. Better doesn't get noticed. If Starbucks sells coffee for 3 bucks and you
sell something just like Starbucks and you sell it for 2.50, yeah, you're better price-wise but you won't
go noticed. Starbucks is the incumbent, customers already know them, you're too risky. But if you're

dramatically different, if your cafe only serves people who arrive in the nude, that'll get on the front of
every single newspaper--
Travis: That's different.
Michael: It's different. You had the chance to stand out. So, from the customer's perspective, so many
businesses are trying to beat their competition by being a little better here, a little better there. A little
better doesn't get noticed, different gets noticed. So evaluate the industry you're in and ask the
question, "What is no one currently doing?" Do that, you've a lot greater chance of success than trying
to be better than somebody else.
Another tip came to me. As I'm looking over my shoulder, I maintain a journal, or a diary, or whatever
you want to call it, and when I was a kid, if I told any of my friends I had a diary, I would've gotten
beaten up. [Unintelligible 00:40:51]
Travis: Me too.
Michael: Yeah. So, I never did it and it's not cool especially for guys, it shows a weakness. So why
would you ever have a diary or a journal of any sort? Well, when I was going through my darkest period
that I told you about, that piggy bank moment. I spoke with a friend and I told him my story, and he
says, "Mike, I feel for you. There's one thing I can suggest that will help you." And he goes, "Just start
journaling." And I said, "Why would I ever want to keep a record of this?" He's like, "It's not keeping a
record, it's letting it out." There are thoughts can eat away at us, and we just sit on it until it's revealed.
And our happy thoughts, the successes and stuff, we often let those out by telling our friends. We run
over and say, "Hey, I just had this big say, I'm so excited." It's now been released. The dark thoughts of
"I'm a failure, I'm struggling, I don't think I can make it, I don't have enough money to pay rent or my
mortgage the next month." Those dark thoughts, we don't share with anyone because they're dark. Well
now, because we're not letting them out, they start eating away at our mind. So, a journal is a great,
great powerful outlet. It lets it out, it gives an amazing amount of release. And there's no process to
this, just start writing, and whatever comes to your mind, that's what your mind wants to release. So just
start writing. You may write some crazy stuff, you might write some angry stuff, you might write some
exciting stuff or grateful stuff, I don't care, just let it out. Because if there's anything that distracts
entrepreneurs from taking the next step that they know they need to take, it's be eaten up by their own
mind, by worry and distraction. Journaling is a powerful, easy way to get yourself free focused.
Travis: Good stuff. Excellent. So let me go back over this, I want to make sure I'm being a good
student here, okay?
Michael: Sure.

Travis: Alright. So, number 1, less planning, more action, I love that. It's scary at times to just step out
there and take action but that's where you grow. There's something about our systems when we see,
when we hear, when we do, when all of those things come together, it evolves you in a way that's hard
to explain. So often, maybe I need to go to the 13th step in something and I put off going to the 13th
step because I don't know what the 14th step is, right?
Michael: Yeah.
Travis: Although, time and time again, when I finally push myself, "Okay, I don't know what the 14 step
is but I'm going to go ahead and take the 13th step. The clarity came to me in taking that 13th step. And
I just want to do a good job of making sure that we're clear about what you're explaining there is the
learning is in the doing, it's not in the planning. Do a little bit of planning but don't meditate on it too
much, right?
Michael: That's right, the learning's in the doing.
Travis: Yeah. So, clarity of vision, so that's a big picture from a big picture standpoint if I were to hit all
my goals and achieved everything that I wanted to in the next 3 years I would be here, is that what
you're saying by clarity?
Michael: Yeah. Now, here's one place where people trip up. They say, "Once I get this I’ll be
successful. Once my company is, say, 5 million in revenue, and I have 30 employees, and blah blah
blah... Then I'll be successful. That is the only mistake. A vision is where you can see the impact you're
having, and how it manifests itself. It could be, I see myself having a $5 million company with 30
employees, and having this impact in the world. The key is to remove that that's the definition of
success. Success is the journey, so the fact that you're building toward that that is success. And if you
say, I'll only be successful when I get there, that also means that you'll feel unsuccessful until that
moment. And Travis, you know this perhaps better than I do. When that moment does happen, you
don't feel any more successful.
Travis: Right.
Michael: It's not like there's a sudden release and you say, "Aha! I am here and angels are singing."
Now, when you get there, often the question is "What's next?" So, I'm telling you, success is in the
journey, but we need to have a vision of how we see it manifesting because that will start allowing us to
take a direction.
Travis: Yeah, that's a great point because, to add color in that, if you don't soak in the journey with this
vision here, it almost forces you to live in a cocoon until you achieve it, right? Almost like the hold your
breath until you get there, right?

Michael: Yeah, that's exactly right.
Travis: Okay. So, do interim planning. So basically, what I hear you saying is chunking down your
goals into like 3 months sections and making sure that you're on target.
Michael: That's exactly right. So, in the beginning I said to do less planning. I'm not saying don't do any
planning, that's reckless.
Travis: Right.
Michael: We do need to have a vision of where we want to go, and then we need to do short term
dynamic planning. Short increments of things we can do in the immediate and near term that moves
closer to that vision. Stop after doing it, I like to do in 3-month increments, once a quarter, 4 times a
year, and then reassess where we are, and then push forward again.
Travis: Yeah. Are we on target, if we're off target, how far off, what do we need to do to get back on,
and do we still want to reach this target, right?
Michael: That's exactly right.
Travis: Okay. So, number 4, different and better. So what I hear you saying is be brave enough to
stand out and be different.
Michael: Yeah, and here's the funny thing, is we all want to be our authentic selves. We all want to be
ourselves. The most uncomfortable thing is when you put on that suit, and you speak a certain way,
and you don't use certain words because that's what the other guy wants or what we perceive we want,
yet we're compromising who we are. The funny thing is if we are simply authentic and true to ourselves.
Be it nerdy, be it professional, be it anti-professional, whatever it is, whoever our natural self is. If we
allow ourselves to be ourselves, that is different. And customers are attracted to different. We don't
want the watered down, next version of the same thing, we want the first and only version of you.
Travis: Right. I think authenticity is more important today than it ever has been in business. What do
you think about that?
Michael: Oh, I totally believe, I totally, totally believe it. Authenticity, it's a funny thing, it allows us to be
more and more comfortable in our own skin, and therefore, we can become naturally better at what we
do. For the customer's perspective, it gives them more and more confidence. We want to buy from
brands, people, things that we trust. And because the past has been this marking barrage, only to get
enhanced when the internet came. Now, anyone could market, total, total claims of grandeur, become a
millionaire overnight stuffed in envelopes, that type of garbage that people no longer trust it. Since they
can't trust what we say because so many people have expanded the truth or lied that they can only

trust what they observe. And therefore, authenticity becomes our marketing. If every element of their
experience with us, they see us online, they meet us walking around the mall, they hear us on an
interview like you and I are doing right now. The more touch they have with us, if they can see
consistency in that, now they start to trust that consistency. And the only way we can have perfect
consistency is to be authentic, because then we're never putting on an air or fake, we're just always
ourselves.
Travis: Yeah, it's very easy to maintain when you're being who you are. You know, a friend of mine
pointed it out and I'm unsure of where I stand on it although it makes sense. She says that certain
people vibrate at different levels. I don't know a whole lot about that mindset but it really does make
sense. She says when people lie, or they're inauthentic, they stand out because they vibrate at a
different level. Have you heard anything about that? Is that interesting to you?
Michael: Yeah. I think you're getting into like what they call Quantum Physics I think. There's these
things called Law of Attraction, and here's how I kind of reconcile that in my mind. I believe people like
people like them, and what that means is, if you and I started this call and I said, "Hey, where are you
from?" You said, "Oh, I grew up in Boonton, New Jersey" that's the town I grew up in. I'm like, "Holy
cow, I grew up there. Where did you go to school?" "Boonton High" "Whoa! Do you remember--" All of a
sudden I feel more connected with you because we had common experiences. Now, the same is true
for all of us. When someone's being authentic and they reveal parts of themselves, if it resonates with
that person, now they're on the same vibration. There's connection made, and trust gets transferred.
When there's connection, huge degrees of trust get transferred. When people lie, you may win trust for
a minute because like oh-- But when people dig deeper into that connection, "Oh, you went to
Boonton?" "Hold on. You don't remember such and such about Boonton High School? How can that
be, I thought you went to Boonton?" When people find that lie, then you're scratched off for life. So,
that's how I kind of reconcile this law of attraction. Put out who you really are and it resonates with
people and perhaps even things that are on the same level, same experience, and there's this huge
transfer of trust and connection immediately because of that.
Travis: Right, yeah, it completely makes sense. So, journaling, that's something interesting. So I hated
writing. I used to skip school over writing assignments and speaking assignments, and I speak for a
living and write.
Michael: Yeah, that's funny.
Travis: And so, I'd been struggling, I want to drive home your point in number 5 here. I'd been
struggling with a back problem, a really weird back problem nobody's been able to figure it out. And I
started writing about it a few months ago to myself. Logging what I'm doing, what's different, how it's
ebbing, how it's flowing, and just getting some of my frustrations out, right? It's almost gone.

Michael: Interesting.
Travis: And that's just one example of how-- It's almost like the thoughts and ideas inside of you really
are like some type of liquid that is rusting you from inside out. Even when I got to do a creative project,
me and my daughter get together and we go paint, and we're coming up with an idea for the painting.
I've learned even if-- I may have some words that come to mind that are not relevant to the painting but
if I don't get them out they're going to stay in the way the whole time. Does that make sense?
Michael: Yeah.
Travis: Now, she's learned and she's learned to understand it, although the first time when I said "Blue,
purple, pink" she's like, well dad, that doesn't apply to what we're talking about. And I'm like, "Well I
know but my creative process just needed to say that to get that out of the way. Now, I think we ought
to do this." Now, it sounds hokey, but those little ideas and thoughts are kind of like people and they're
going to pester you until you give them attention. And the way you give them attention is you verbalize
them or you write them down. And so, I've personally experienced what you're talking about on number
5 on many, many levels. And it sounds like I think you've experienced it in many different directions as
well.
Michael: Yeah, you know what it was is-- I think I'm just going to reiterate what you said but maybe
slightly different words. When it comes to my worries, when I don't write them down or share them with
others, they eat me more, and more, and more because the attention goes there. But the problem is I
can only do so many things at once, and when I'm worrying about whatever it is, often finances are a
common theme for me. If I'm worrying about my businesses or personal finances, then all my attention
is on the worry and it becomes so consuming, I can't put much more in my mind like solving this
problem.
Travis: Right.
Michael: But when I write it down or I share it with some friends, there's a sense of release and it
opens me up to take action in the right direction. And finance is just one I think common example for all
of us. But any worries, are we good enough, are we doing what's right, do the people we love, love us?
All those things that could chew us up. If you just try to hold on to it, you're in trouble because it's going
to occupy every waking moment of your life. You got to release it.
Travis: It's fascinating how that works isn't it?
Michael: Yeah, it really is. And entrepreneurship just magnifies it. I think entrepreneurs can experience
the highest highs and the lowest lows. Like, it's the manifestation of a bipolar life where you have some
days, you look in your bank account and that big, fat check came in, you're like, "Whoa, we're on fire."

And as you're saying that the phone rings, a new client comes on board, you're like, "Bam!" And then
like 3 weeks later, you pay all the things, all the bills you have, you had unexpected tax bill, you don't
have enough money, and the phone is dead silent. And now you're like, "Oh my God, I am such a
failure, I am such a loser." It's up and down, up and down. But that's our reality, we need a mechanism
to release that stuff.
Travis: A bipolar existence.
Michael: Yeah.
Travis: So, I'm curious, were you a good student in school?
Michael: No, I'm okay. I got okay grades in high school. In college I kind of skirted by. I wasn't a big
student but I started to realize a couple of things I could do that other people couldn't do, and I thought
everyone could do this stuff. And that's kind of started my realization that I and we all have a few
strengths and many weaknesses.
Travis: So, I have a theory. I believe that most entrepreneurs were bad students.
Michael: Yeah, we comply. I would never consider myself a bad student, but I never got like, you know-
-
Travis: Not a good student, right?
Michael: Yeah, the honor roll and those type things in college, I never got any of that stuff.
Travis: Right. Even successful people Jay Leno got in trouble for talking too much in the class.
Michael: I did all the time.
Travis: You know, us entrepreneurs, I paint outside the lines, entrepreneurs are willing to paint outside
the lines that's why you're an entrepreneur, right?
Michael: Yeah, I agree. And you know what's funny is I actually negotiated some of my credits in
college. That's where I'm most proud of is I remember I didn't have enough credits. I had a double
major in college, I didn't have enough credits, at the end I miscalculated it. And I negotiated more
credits, and realized it, like, "Wow, you can negotiate or sell everything. You can negotiate your degree.
Travis: Right. I've done very similar things to that. So, more and more entrepreneurs that I speak to,
they've all had very similar problems in school to where they get in trouble for not following the exact
guidelines or being the most ideal student.

Michael: Yeah.
Travis: So, okay, well listen, we're running a little long on time, let's segue to the lighting round here
where I sent you three questions that you could think on. I don't know if you spent any time on that or if
you're going to just do it off the top of your head.
Michael: I'm going to do totally off the cuff lightning because I break the rules already, I didn't prepare.
Travis: Alright, good deal. No worries for me. What book or program made an impact on you related to
business that you'd recommend and why?
Michael: First book that changed me forever was E-myth Revisited by Michael Gerber.
Travis: Okay.
Michael: And why, is because it said, "Work on the business, not in the business", and that one
clicked.
Travis: And great advice also, right?
Michael: Yeah.
Travis: Okay, so what's one of your favorite tools or pieces of technology that you've recently
discovered, if any, that you'd recommend to other business owners?
Michael: You know, the most recent thing I've discovered is called Yesware, and if you have a Gmail
account, or Outlook works for that too, is you can send emails to people and put a tracker on it. And
when they open the email, it'll send a note back saying they opened the email, but they will never know
that you got this response. It doesn't say, "Hey, can I send a response." They open the email and it
triggers a response to you saying, "Hey, Travis just opened the email." So I use it for sales all the time.
I will send the email to someone, I'll wait for them to open it and then I'll call them immediately and say,
"Hey, I don't know if you got the email I sent you but I wanted to talk about it." And they say, "Oh my
God, this must be serendipity, I just opened it." So, it's a great sales tool.
Travis: Brilliant. What famous quote would best summarize your belief or attitude in business?
Michael: Oscar Wilde's quote. "Be yourself, everyone else is already taken."
Travis: I love that. Do you have any special super powers that you wouldn't mind sharing with us?
Michael: I have the ability to make complex things simple. So, I call myself Super Simpleton.
Travis: I like that, that's a good power to have.

Michael: Yeah, but Simpleton to me is not the best term in the world but that's who I am.
Travis: Well, it sounds like you're comfortable with yourself so let's roll with it. Listen, if you had to start
over today, what would you do to get back, or get the fastest results?
Michael: I would have paid a lot more attention to my purpose, because purpose brings about passion,
passion brings about persistence, and persistence brings about the ultimate in success. So, I would pay
a lot more attention about what my purpose is on this planet.
Travis: Excellent. Listen, how do people connect with you?
Michael: Oh, if you want to get some free stuff, all my books, I have 3 chapters so you can check them
out. And resources and videos. MikeMichalowicz.com is the place to go. It's a real tough on to spell, so
I'll spell. But you could also just try to Google my name or one of my books. Pumpkin Plan, Toilet Paper
Entrepreneur, Profit First, they all find me. But the website is, Mike Michalowicz, which is M-i-c-h-a-l-o-
w-i-c-z.com.
Travis: Excellent interview Mike, I've completely enjoyed it. I appreciate you taking out the time and
just share in your wisdom, your personal story, very touching, I know exactly where you're coming from.
Thanks a bunch.
Michael: Hey, it's been a real pleasure for me, thanks for the privilege. Yeah, it sounds like we're
brothers and we've been through the same dark period. Just wishing you continued success sir.
End of Interview
Travis: Wonderful, thank you for that.
Travis: Now listen, I want to remind you guys that you can find all the links to the books and the
resources mentioned in the show notes. Just go to rockstarentrepreneurnetwork.com, it's a brand new
site that we're building out that is completely focused on giving you the resources to grow your
business.
Now, before I close the show today. I want to remind you that building a profitable business is a series
of formulas, I talk about this all the time. And as you apply those formulas to your business, your profits
become very predictable and start building long term wealth. This is what moves you into a position to
help others which I believe is part of our responsibility as entrepreneurs. Now, if you haven't reached
that level of consistency yet with your business and you'd like to learn how it's done, we've put together
a program called The Business Breakthrough Sweepstakes where we focus on teaching the formulas in

a simple, step-by-step format so that you can customize them to your business. This is what I've used
to build several tiny, little local companies to multimillion dollar businesses. Also, to add a little fun and
excitement to the program, join the sweepstakes and you stay engaged, you'll have a chance to win
$73,000 in cash and prizes where I'll personally mentor you and your business. Plus, you'll have a
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where my team will help create your messages and your marketing to position you as an authority in
your field, which is key to being able to make 3, or 400% more profit on whatever it is that you offer.
We'll also look deep into your business and figure out what's holding you back from moving to that next
level and beyond. We'll help you set-up your automations so that the new prospects are constantly
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So, there's several other things that we'll do but you get the basic, overall point. These are the things
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And I want this working for you. Whether I come in and set this up for you as the grand prize or not, I
still want to teach you a lot of these things so that you can start making these tweaks to your knowledge
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sweepstakes promotion.
Now, my quote for today comes from Helen Keller, and the quote reads, "Optimism is the faith that
leads to achievement. Nothing can be done without hope and confidence.” This is Travis Lane Jenkins
signing off for now, to your incredible success my friend, take care.

How We Can Help You
We know that finding someone that you can trust online today is hard and that so many “so called
gurus” are self-‐appointed and have never really even done what they teach you to do. That’s exactly
why we created the Double Your Profits Business Accelerator. This is an exclusive offer for our fans at
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We'll do this by performing a S.W.O.T. Analysis. This tells us your Strengths, Weaknesses,
Opportunities and Threats within your business.
This will be an eye opener for YOU, for several reasons, however some of the most common reasons
are.
As the 'Business Owner' it’s difficult to see the big picture of your own business because you’re in the
middle of a daily management.
And you are too emotionally involved to completely impartial.
This is a common problem for EVERY business owner. It doesn’t matter if you are a one-man army, or
an army of 150, the problem is still the same.
Travis Lane Jenkins
Business Mentor-Turn Around Specialist
Radio Host of The Entrepreneurs Radio Show
“Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs That Grow Your Business"

The Entrepreneurs Radio Show 086 Michael Michalowicz

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