The Entrepreneurs Radio Show 035 Bob Burg

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW
Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business
Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur‟s Radio Show Page 1 of 21
EPISODE #35: BOB BURG
In this episode, Travis introduces us to Bob Burg, a successful speaker and international best-selling
author. He has written over 5 books and his most recent one, The Go-Giver, is the main topic of this
episode‟s discussion. Bob‟s creative and practical ways of handling your economy would definitely help
any struggling entrepreneurs or businessmen who are working their way in today‟s unstable economy.
Bob‟s way of shifting your focus to giving rather than receiving and that is putting your customer‟s
interest first and adding value to their lives is a way to go in achieving guaranteed long-term success.
His 5 Laws of Stratospheric Success also serves as a guide for entrepreneurs to reach that goal. This
episode would definitely change a person‟s mindset on what is important and what should govern their
ideals as they try to reach their own path to success.
Bob Burg – Giving FIRST to Grow Your Business
Travis: Hey, it‟s Travis Lane Jenkins, welcome episode number 35 of Diamonds in Your Own
Backyard, the Entrepreneur's Radio Show. Conversations with successful business owners that grow
your business. Sandra, my co-host and good friend, is still in the center of Daytona International
Raceway so it's just us three today.
Today we're talking about taking a whole new approach for many people that causes you to shift your
thinking that will have a drastic impact on the success of your business and your life. Although before I
introduce you to our guest today, I'd like to ask you to stay with us until the very end, if you can. I want
to share an inspirational quote with you and I'll also reveal who I'm going to connect you within the next
episode. Also, if you enjoy these free podcast that we create for you, we'd really appreciate it if you'd go
to iTunes and post a comment, and rate the show. This would help us instruct, inspire more great
entrepreneurs like yourself with each and every episode.
Now for some quick perspective on this show of Diamonds in your Own Backyard for our new friends
that just joined us. I want you to think of this as a conversation between four friends, me, Sandra when
she's here, you, and, of course, our guest. Even though we're talking with some of the brightest
entrepreneurs and brilliant thought leaders around, this is still just as if we're sitting at a table with each
other. Everyone that we're visiting with has found success doing what they teach, and I want to help
you by sharing what they've discovered.

Normally, the only way to get this level of personal access to so many high level entrepreneurs beyond
having your own show is to join a high level mastermind, go to seminars, events and just build those
relationships over several years. And now with this platform and this podcast, I get to share these great
people with you to fast-forward your success and of course your connections.
Our guest today is Bob Burg. Bob is the author of five excellent books. His most recent book are the
one that we're focusing on today is an international best-seller titled The Go-Giver. The book is
centered on shifting your focus from getting to giving, which is not only a nice way to live but a very
financially profitable way as well. Bob believes that you cannot control the economy but you can
absolutely control your economy, which I couldn't agree more with.
Beyond being an incredible entrepreneur and author, Bob speaks on stages all over the world with
today's top thought leaders. I could go on with lots of incredible accomplishments about our guest
today, although I want you to meet him and get to know him personally yourself, so without further ado,
welcome to the show Bob.
Bob: Hi Travis, great to be with you.
Travis: Thank you. I know that you're extremely busy, so thanks for taking your time out to join us.
Bob: Oh, it's my pleasure.
Travis: Hey, before we get going, would you mind sharing the back-story of who you are and how
you've become to find so much success?
Bob: Well, the back-story is basically, I began as a broadcaster; I was in radio and then television
news. I had worked my way up to the late night news anchorship of a small ABC affiliate in the
Midwest. Really wasn't a very good newscaster though, I could read the news but I was young, I was
just out of college, didn't really have any idea of the news, and I really didn't care, so that didn't make
for a very good combination. And eventually, in very short time actually, I graduated into sales and
realized I knew nothing about that either. And floundered terribly at it for a while until I came across a
couple of great books, one was How to Master the Art of Selling by Tom Hopkins; this is in the early
'80s, mid 80s. And the other one was by Zig Ziglar and those two kind of became my two sales heroes.
And in a very, very short period of time, just following the information I learned in their books and their
audio--back then, audio tapes, not even CDs but tapes my sales started to skyrocket and it was really
nothing more than simply having a system, having an understanding of what to do. I often define a
system as simply the process of predictably achieving a goal based on a logical and specific set of
how-to principles, in other words, the key is predictability. If it's been proven that by doing A, you'll get
the desired result of B, then really, all you need to do is A and do A continually enough and you're
going to have that desired result of B.

One of my favorite books was the E-myth by Michael Gerber, and in that book he gave what I thought
was a great benefit of following a proven system, and I'm paraphrasing here slightly, so please forgive
me. But he said that, "Systems permit ordinary people to achieve extraordinary results, predictable."
Travis: Right.
Bob: And I thought that was terrific and really, that is what a system allows someone to do. So once, I
actually learned how to do the thing, so to speak. I had the work ethic and I had the desire and I had
the intuitive understanding that selling was about finding ways to provide value to your customers.
Once I knew how to do it then it was a whole different thing. And from there I'd work my way up to sales
management and leadership, and from there we began to speak on the topic and write books on it and
here I am today.
Travis: So you first started honing your skills as working for someone in the trenches of being a
salesman and needing to find success in sales. And then as you found that system, you realize that it
was a system, whether it be sales or business or speaking or whatever, it's basically a process that
you've got to get down to. Is that what you're saying?
Bob: Yeah, and I think whatever it is you do and whatever project it is you undertake, I think there's a
process to it. I think the first thing is to know what it is you want to do and have that desire, that burning
desire to succeed in it, but I don't think that's enough, I think then what you've got to do is find the
system. Seek out and find the information. The good news is that anything you want to do has been
done already in some form, in some context. So seek out the system, find the system, don't try and
reinvent the wheel. Find out what other people have done that's helped them to be successful in what
you want to do, do the same thing, and you're going to get the same result.
I remember hearing Brian Tracy say that for the first time and I thought, "Wow that does make sense."
The next thing is to apply the information. You've got to actually get out of the starting gate and do it,
you can't wait for everything to be perfect. Do it and you'll make corrections as you go along, which
doesn't mean of course to be sloppy or haphazard, but it means you do need to start and apply the
information. Next is understand that you're going to get knocked on your rear end along the way, that's
just part of success. A couple of good friends of mine, Andrea Waltz and Richard Fenton wrote a
terrific, terrific book entitled Go for No. You can find it at GoforNo.com, G-O-F-O-R-N-O.com. And they
actually, not only show how to deal with no's and how to put up with no's but how to actually embrace
them. Their motto was that, "Yes is the destination, and No is the way to get there." And that's so true.
And I think one of the things that knocks people out of the game sometimes, once they get a couple of
no's is they think that no is not a natural art of the process. They think they're the only one getting these
no's, but it's absolutely not the case. And so once we understand that and we can embrace them, now
we're operating out of a position of strength. And the next thing is have such a belief in your mission

and what you're doing that you become ten feet tall and bulletproof. And so I think if someone's willing
to do those things, they're going to find that's the process, that's what you're going to do to, I think, to
be successful.
Travis: Yeah, it's funny that you say that because it's something that I discovered. It really kind of
turned the light on for me early on and so I really have a deep, clear, level of clarity of what you're
talking about. So early on for me I thought that sales was an art, and so I'm almost embarrassed to
admit this but I wasn't quite sure that it was teachable and I was very young then, I just thought, hey,
you're either born with it or not because I had so many, I've seen so many people that just come along
and didn't get it. It was simple to me, it wasn't simple to them.
And then what happened is one day as I come to realize that it's actually a science, and there's a little
bit of art in there. But it's actually a science, a methodology that you follow, that I thought, "Well, if that
rule applies to sales and it applies to everything else,” and that was the shift that happened to me. And
what I hear you saying is that same parallel, right?
Bob: Yeah. Well, I think that's very true. And while there are other aspects and other things that allow a
person to be successful in terms of being a sales professional, I think the understanding that there's an
art and a science to it that you can learn how to do it, I think that's very important for people to
understand. And I think while there are people who intuitively tap-in to the laws that makes someone a
good sales person, it can be taught to anyone. Anyone can learn it, they need to have the desire to do
so. And often that person who sort of has that inclination, it's almost dangerous for them because they
don't know why they're successful. And I remember hearing Bob Bracker saying that if you, "If you don't
know why you're successful at something, then you going to really be in trouble when you're in a slump"
because you don't know what it is that you did wrong. So I think that's a very important thing. So I think
it's important for anyone to learn how to sell and to make a study.
Travis: Right. And sale has, for so many people, has a dirty word attached to it, which I think is
completely off base. Where you a natural in sales?
Bob: No, not at all. I had no idea how to sell and I remember because of my first sales job, and as I
said I floundered for a while. There was basically no sales training there at all, it was pretty much just
go out, talk to people, and do what you need to do. So I had no idea, I really had no idea. And I thought
what a shame that it's just a matter of just knocking on doors and hoping. And then when I came
across, first it was Tom Hopkins book, just even seeing the title, How to Master the Art of Sales, wow,
you mean there's actually, as you said, an art and a science to it, there's a way to do this other than just
knocking on doors and trying to tell people about what you're doing. And so it opened up a whole new
world to me. So no, I was not a natural at it at all.

Travis: Well, you know, it's hard to see that because you're such a smooth, you have such a smooth
delivery that I would assume, do you sing, this as a crazy question, do you sing, are you vocally
inclined?
Bob: You know it's interesting, I'm really not and yet I love it, and gosh, I'll get out there on the floor and
sing if I'm given the chance. But I have a decent speaking voice, not so much a good singing voice.
Travis: Wow that surprises me.
Bob: I don't let that stop me.
Travis: I would've bet my money, marble, and chalks that you could sing because I've listened to a
couple of your books and your style of--number one your story-telling style I love but your delivery so
your vocal skill set of delivery is such a great, warm cadence.It's --you're in the pocket the whole time.
Not too soon, not too slow and that's a cadence that most people learn from singing. So, giving you
some perspective from kind of an outsider, boy you're really, really brilliant there. So that's why I kind of
guessed that.
Bob: Well, thank you. You know, I've been speaking for a very long time now, so I think you start to do
something enough. It's like that 10,000 hours of deliberate practice that Gladwell talks about in his book
Outliers, and Geoff Colvin talks about in his book Talent is Overrated. If you put enough hours of
deliberate practice in there, you're going to get good as something. And as far as the story telling goes,
it's interesting because the book The Go-Giver is a story, it's a parable, a fable. The reason why the
story's saying so well is because of John David Mann, my awesome co-author. I tend to be much more
of a how-to, step 1 step 2 step 3. Now, when I speak on stage I tell a lot of stories but they're always
true stories. There's a big difference between relating a true story on stage and trying to write a work of
fiction and when I first had the idea for The Go-Giver which was based on the premise of a previous
book, Endless Referrals, I started to write this fictional story and it took me all of about a minute to
realize that there's a huge difference between writing a how-to book and writing a work of fiction which
is what The Go-Giver is going to be.
And so I called John David Mann who was the editor-in-chief of a magazine I used to write for and I
asked John to be the lead writer in the storyteller because I knew his reputation. And he's such a great,
great writer. So John really deserves the credit for the story, coming across as a dib because, boy, did
he just take those characters and the basic principles and the different things and he did a magnificent
job.
Travis: Yeah, well you guys together because you read the story, and there's actually a couple of
people that read the story, right?

Bob: Yeah. John and I both read the story on the book on tape.
Travis: Okay.
Bob: We took turns reading chapters which worked out really well.
Travis: Well you know, one of the things that, I want to draw a parallel with something that happened
with me and then I want to apply it to what's going on, what I think is happening with your whole
approach with this book. There was a transition several years ago to where I--in my business, I was the
early adopter to some strategies that just allowed us to generate $40 million doing something, because
we were so early to it. And then through evolution, over the next 4 or 5 years, it was funny; those early
adoption skill sets become a requirement to survive. And I think that's what's going on, I believe that
your strategy with the book or what you teach in the book is a great way to grow your business that is
quickly becoming a requirement to stay in business, does that make sense?
Bob: It really does, and you bring up a really interesting point regarding early adaptors because one of
the things John and I found out when the book first came out, it did take off really fast, which is a delight
when that happens, because that's not necessarily what happens with the book. The people who
bought the book at first where not really the people who needed it. The people who bought it or the
people who were already doing those things and they've been doing so for a long time, even before the
book came out. And what happens is, they were, that's that, either that 20%, or the 20% of the 20%,
but they were getting the book and buying it for their entire organizations or companies and so forth,
and spreading the word around, and then from there, it went to the people who maybe needed to hear
about it, which really show, and this is something John and I knew was that, there was nothing new in
the book that people who are already successful didn't already know. None of these were theories or
something that needed to be testing. We're basically taking universal laws and principles of success
that's worked forever and we put into story form. But sure, the early adopters were the ones already
doing this, and I think people began to see that yes, these are things that we need to do and continue
doing if we're going to survive and thrive in business.
Travis: Right. And so, initially, it's preaching to the choir, the choir is the one that buys the book, so to
speak. But then the influencers would then the choir start compelling other people that really need to
hear this message and apply it to their business. That's a brilliant way for, and I think that's how really
good steps start spreading anyways right?
Bob: I would like to think that's the case and we certainly felt fortunate that that happened and it was
really nice to, at first, the emails we were getting were from the people who, again, were already doing
these things and say, "Yes, this is just what I've been trying to tell people, your story put it into words.
Bought X-amount of copies for my employees or team members." but then we'd start months later,

getting emails from those people saying that their business has increased, they're having more fun
doing what they're doing, they've finally allowed themselves to begin receiving as according to the
value they're providing. And that's what really made us feel great because we've realized that those
early adopters, the influencers as you were saying, did get the book into those other people's hands
and it was embraced.
Travis: Right. And so, to give you kind of a rant of the impact of that from a different angle. You know
I've been on a binge over the last year of just deleting or removing myself from the list of people that
constantly have offers to sell. I don't know, I'm a capitalist, and I'm fine with people selling things but
don't treat me like a dollar sign and constantly try to hurry me to the cash register. Let's have an
exchange of value, and then I'll spend lots and lots of money with you. And I feel like that's the
underlying principle of what you're teaching here as well?
Bob: Yeah. In a truly free market environment, you serve yourself best by focusing on providing value
to others, and this is why John and I both say that money is simply an echo of value, it's the thunder to
values light, which simply means the value must come first. And the money is simply a direct and
natural result of the values that's been provided. And when we talk about law number 3, the law of the
influence, influence is determined by how abundantly you place other people's interest first. When we
say place other people's interest first, we don't need to be a doormat, a martyr, or self-sacrificial in any
way. It's simply based on a very important business principle that in the story Sam, one of the mentors,
told to Joe, the protégé, and that is the golden rule of business, of selling, is that all things being equal,
people will do business with and refer business to, those people they know, like, and trust. And Travis,
you're a very successful business person so you know as well as anyone, the best way, the fastest
way, the most powerful way to elicit those feelings toward you and others is to actually step outside
yourself and your own interest move from what we call an "I" focus or a "me" focus to an "other" focus.
Temporarily suspend, if you will, your self-interest, which doesn't mean forgo your self-interest, that's
not necessary, and it wouldn't be correct, because the thing is we're human beings we are self-
interested creatures. But that person who can temporarily and willingly and consciously suspend their
self-interest in order to focus how they can provide value to other people, that's the way to develop that,
those know, like, and trust relationships and create that benevolent context for success where people
feel good about you, and that's really how it all works. So yes, when someone just connects with you
and then immediately pings you about buying their product or so, or keeps hitting you up for this and
that, they're not providing value, they're basically broadcasting, "Hey, my intent is to get your money.
Yeah, I probably have good value but you don't know that and there's no reason to believe that. They
haven't gone about it in such a way as to communicate that know, like, and trust.
Travis: I agree with you. What percentage of business owners, I have a number in my mind but what
percentage of business owners do you feel like have this wrong?

Bob: That's a good question, and I really don't know. I don't know what the percentage would be. Yeah,
I think like anything else that 20-80 rule, that Pareto principle tends to work itself out a lot and is usually
pretty accurate, but I really don't know, I don't have any quantitative figures to say--why, what would
you say?
Travis: Well, my opinion is very unscientific. I love to observe crowds, I like to sit in the back and look
for tipping points. How many people have to stand up before the whole crowd stands up and all of
those things. And I look at a lotofpeople's messages and just the very unscientific number would be, I
think, 90-10. I think most people are still doing one step marketing where they think they don't grasp the
giving concept and the sad thing about it is, I believe, the majority of those people are going to be
driven out of business very soon if they don't start adopting what you're talking about. Because, again,
early on it was a great way to separate yourself from everyone else. Now, today, and I've used this
analogy before, to be a successful business owner you need to have the skills of a street fighter and
the way you do that is just provide compelling, great content that helps each other and builds that
relationship. Before I got on this recording with you today, I already knew you, I already liked you, I
already trusted you. So your book while teaching is a great illustration of that principle, right?
Bob: Oh, thank you, well I appreciate that. Thank you very much.
Travis: And so, the convenience for a lot of people of adopting this is about to leave and a lot of people
are going to find it harder and harder to stay in business. Now, there's so many great things for us to
talk about here and one thing that we fast forwarded it over a little bit that I want to go back to is, so you
honed a lot of your skills and figured out what wasn't a fit for you, working for someone else along the
way. When did you transition into being an entrepreneur yourself?
Bob: Well, I think I always had the entrepreneurial bug and I always thought of myself as an
entrepreneur even when I worked within an organization, I always knew that even when I was an
employee I pretty much had a client and that client was my employer. But really, I think sales is
entrepreneur. When you're in sales you're basically in business for yourself. If you're in all commission
basis, that is your business, that is what you're doing. But it wasn't until I actually began speaking that I
actually had my own business myself and as I began to grow a speaking business I did the same thing
as I would with anything else. I learned how to do it because it's a business like anything else. So yeah,
that was really, and I've been doing this now for gosh, about 25 years.
Travis: So you've always had that and I think there's a lot of us that have that, that entrepreneurial
spirit even as a young child, in just one day we find the courage to take that leap and do it for
ourselves.

So you've been doing it for yourself for 25 years, how long before things really started transitioning into
a big success for you, whatever success is from your perspective?
Bob: Well, as far as the actual business success, it took a few years, it took 3 to 5 years to really build
a business so that it was self-sustaining and a couple of times along the way I nearly went out of
business or I had to go--a couple of times I almost had to go back to getting a full-time job in sales and
build the speaking business part-time. Fortunately, whenever it was just about to happen, something
great would come along and in fact there's one story I often tell that, and I call it the One More Call
Story. And what happened was, I probably been in the business about 3 or 4 years, had done
reasonably well but it was just at that point of not quite being there and I almost, I in fact I was planning
that weekend to go into the news paper to look through the newspaper for some sales jobs, figuring I
was going to have to do that. What happened was when I was in direct sales, I used to have this thing
called „one more call‟ and I'm sure many people have that and that would be at the end of the day when
I was all through with all my sales calls, I'd make one more call. And I can't tell you how many times
that one more call would result in a sale. Now it didn't have to, the one more call simply meant one
more call whether it was a sale or not, it just used to work out that sometimes it would happen.
Anyway, so I was really feeling discouraged again because I loved the speaking business then like I do
now, and really did not want to go back to selling for anyone else, I like selling for myself. But I knew it
was time that I was going to have to do that because I couldn't pay the bills, and so at the end of the
day just before leaving, I decided I'm going to make one more call. So I actually went into the yellow
pages, and I called the company that--there's should be--it was a national organization and there was
really no way I thought that when I was selling at the time and my speaking at the time, my topic at the
time, I didn't think it was something they would even need. But it wasn't whether they would need it or
not, it was one more call. And don't you know that when I spoke with this person, immediately she said,
"Well, you know what we actually offer courses to all the different sections around the country." They
had 41 sections which were kind of state associations but they call them state sections. "We have 41 of
them and we're always looking for speakers and that sounds like a really great topic." And you know
what ended up that I ended up speaking for them and it actually kept me going for the next couple of
years and kept me in business.
Travis: Oh, I love that story. I love it.
Bob: One call, and it was after that I was able to, from that point on, there wasn't that danger of having
to get a part-time sales job and not that there weren't ups and downs, believe me, but it never got to
that point again.
Travis: Right. I love that story; necessity is the mother of invention isn't it?

Bob: Oh gosh, absolutely.
Travis: Unfortunately at times we need those failures, we need those things to push us out of our
comfort zone and do some things that cause us to take it to that next level. You know the name of the
show is Diamonds in Your Own Backyard and it comes from the story of acres and acres of diamonds
and I'm sure you're probably familiar with that.
Bob: Love it.
Travis: And there was a time in my life Bob, to where, my mother passed away, I didn't deal with the
loss of her very well and my business was not set-up to run without me being there, mentally or
physically, which was a major mistake and through neglect it drove my business into bankruptcy. A
gigantic business, lots of people. And for me, I thought that that was the end of my life and it's the
deepest, darkest point collectively of all the things going on. And I was fortunate enough to make it all
back in 18 months, to fast-forward through that, but with a little time and some perspective I come to
realize that that was a diamond for me. I needed to go through these things, I needed to experience
loss, I was maybe a little arrogant as a younger successful man, I wasn't willing to take direction on
some things. And so it segued me into the most important part of my life which is making a difference in
entrepreneurs' lives. Now money, I'm still a capitalist and money's great but I love that my passion is
aligned with that and it sounds like to me that that was--was that your diamond or was that a turning
point or do you have something similar like that that was your diamond?
Bob: You know, I don't think that there was any one thing and it's funny because I called the basic
concept turning points. There are certain things and I've certainly experienced certain things in my life
that was where you say, "Okay, I'm either going to give up now or I'm going to take this and use it as a
propellant to go to that next level and be successful." I'm not sure that that necessarily was or wasn't,
but it was certainly something that I needed at that time to give me not only the working capital but the
confidence to know that I could stay in the business.
So yeah, I don't think there was that one turning point in the business right there, but there certainly
been turning points in my personal life where I had to--and none of them as devastating as losing a
parent, I'm so sorry to hear about your mom. But you know, I think that in life we do have these turning
points and one of the important things is recognizing them even if we recognize them 18 months after
they happen or after that.
Travis: Right. Yeah. So, turning points don't always have to be so drastic or dramatic, just like you
said, a lot of times they can be a series of smaller things and not necessarily so catastrophic. Not
everybody is as thickheaded as me so you don't need to be hit over the head quite as hard as maybe I
do to get a lesson. Let me segue you back to some of the great stuff that you were talking about in the

book because those are such important laws, there's 5 laws that I believe you refer to as laws of
stratospheric success, right?
Bob: Yes.
Travis: And I think I interrupted your flow on that by getting some of your back-story there. So would
you mind if I took you back there and you kind of walk us through that?
Bob: No, that would be fine.
Travis: Okay. And so the first one was the law of value, right?
Bob: Yeah. That's sort of a foundational principle or foundational law and the law of value simply says
that your true worth is determined by how much more you give in value than you take in payment. Now
on the surface that sounds sort of counter-intuitive, perhaps even counter-productive because one
could say, "Wait a second, how does a person give more in value than they take in payment and stay in
business? Never mind driving their business, it kind of sounds like it's a recipe for bankruptcy." So let's
take that saying, give more in value than you take in payment, and now let's put something into the mix,
and that is what we need to understand the difference between price and value. Price is a dollar figure,
it's a dollar amount, it's finite, it is what it is. Value on the other hand is the relative word, or desirability
of a thing to the end user or beholder, in other words, what is it about this thing, this product, this
service, this concept, this idea, that brings with it so much worth, there's so much value that someone
will willingly exchange their money for this value and feel great about what they did while the sales
person or business owner makes a very healthy profit. And I often will give you example of an
accountant who charges a thousand dollars to do your taxes. That's his fee or literally his price, a
thousand dollars. But what does he give you in value in exchange for that. Well, let say he saves you
five thousand dollars, he saves you 20 hours of work if you'd have to do it yourself.He provides you with
the security and the peace of mind if knowing it was done correctly. So what we see here first of all that
value could be both concrete in terms of the $5,000 savings, it can also be conceptual in terms of time
saved and most importantly the peace of mind that you receive. And so what he did is he gave you well
over $5,000 in value in exchange for a thousand dollar price, he gave you more in used value than
what he took from you in cash value. So you feel just great about it and he made a very, very healthy
profit which he should. That's actually what the capitalistic, free-market system is all about, it means
that it's a willing exchange between two or more parties because both people want something from that
transaction that they feel is going to benefit them, and actually the mark of a true free enterprise base
exchange is that both parties come away from the transaction better off than they were before the
transaction.
Travis: Great point.

Bob: Yeah. Now we get to that point through focus and remember we were talking about earlier that
shift of focus, and that is that it's only by focusing on that person and their needs that they're going to
feel good enough about you, that they're going to trust you, that they're going to respect your judgment
to do business with you. That's why the true entrepreneur, the true sales person understands that it's by
focusing on the other person's needs that that is what's going to cause that business to take place.
Travis: I love it. So, okay. Transitioning to the law of compensation which is step 2 and then continue
that example.
Bob: Sure. The law of compensation says, „Your income is determined by how many people you serve
as well as how well you serve.‟ So re-law number 1 says to give more in value than you take in
payment, law number 2 tells us that the more people whose lives we add this kind of exceptional value
to, the more money with which will be rewarded.
Again, let's go back to our accountant. He did a great job of giving more in value than what he took in
payment while still making a profit. So if you're his client, you feel great about him, you would do
business with him again, and most likely you would refer him to others while his other clients feel the
same way. So our accountant is very quickly amassing what we call an army of personal, walking
ambassadors. And as he continues to add that kind of exceptional value to the lives of more and more
people, his income will continue to grow and grow, and that's the same for anyone in the business.
What they need to understand is that providing exceptional value is hugely important, but that just
represents as Nicole, one of the characters in the book, one of the mentors told Joe that the law of
value, law number 1 that represents your potential income. But your actual income is a matter of
outreach, it's a matter of impact, it's a matter of how many people's lives you touch with that exceptional
value. So we can almost take both laws and say that exceptional value plus significant reach equals
very high compensation.
Travis: Okay, makes sense. So that segues us into the law of influence, number 3, right?
Bob: Right. And we hit on this briefly earlier, and that just says that your influence is determined by
how abundantly you place other people's interests first. Again, it's just moving from an "I" focus to an
"other" focus. It's planting seeds of value and good will and great will, and as you do this, it's not some
kind of conceptual--well, just bring value to a lot of people and good things will happen, no it's nothing
like that. It's actually very concrete, because to a degree that you create relationships for people on an
ongoing basis and you're able to develop these relations where people feel good about you, they know
you, they like you, they trust you, they want to see you succeed, they want to refer you to others. You
put yourself in a position where you're that go-to person, you're that center of influence. You become
positioned as that person in your line of work for people to go to when they need what you do

personally, and or they know others who do as well, and that's really what the law of influence is all
about.
Travis: Brilliant way to explain it. Let's move to number 4, the law of authenticity, I love this one.
Bob: Well, the law of authenticity says that the most valuable gift you have to offer is yourself. In the
story Deborah Davenport learned a very important lesson, and that is that all the skills in the world, the
sales skills, the technical skills, the people skills, as important as they are, and they are very, very
important, they're all for naught if you don't come at it from your true authentic core, if you don't show
up as yourself. Now when you do show up as yourself, when you do show up authentically, people feel
good about you, people crave consistency, they crave knowing where they stand. And so people
respond to that very well. On the other hand, I think people these days have gotten a lot more
sophisticated and they can tell when someone really isn't operating from their true core. Now what's
interesting about this is I think that most people who we might consider to be operating less than
authentically. I'm not so much talking about the people who mean to do that, now don't get me wrong,
we live in a big world, there are many different types and there are people who are crooks, and there's
people who are phonies and some people are very, very good at it. And it takes a while for them to be
found out, which usually does happen eventually, but not really talking about them Travis, I'm talking
about the people who really--they don't show up as themselves only because they really don't have the
confidence in themselves to understand and recognize the true value that they bring to others. That
was Deborah's challenge in the story, and you might recall, she learned it at the last minute and by
accident, but there's no reason for someone to have to do that. I think the most people have--I think
everyone, had two different types of value. There's intrinsic value that we all have just by being born,
we bring value. But there's also what I call market value. And those are the, whether it's skills, or an
intuitiveness or what have you, that people naturally bring with them. For different people it's different
things, but what happens is, and I think one reason why people are not necessarily be able to
recognize themselves is because they're too close to the situation, they're too close to themselves.
Whether someone has a natural talent for something, or they've put in those 10,000 hours of deliberate
practice we referred to earlier, and most likely it's a combination of both. It becomes so natural to them
at this point that they don't recognize it. And I know you've mentored and coached a lot of people and
continue to do that, and I can't tell you how many times I've spoken with someone I'm mentoring and
they've said something or done something and I said, "Wow, that is brilliant, that's terrific.", and they
said, "Oh, no. Everybody knows that or everybody does that."
And they weren't being falsely modest; they really didn't understand that they brought something very
special to the game. And again I think it's because they're just too close to the situation, which is why it
is important, I think, to have a mentor, a coach, or a friend, or someone who's far enough removed that

they're not emotionally involved and are just as close emotionally to the situation as you are. But while
they care, they're far enough removed that they can actually see the forest for the tree, so to speak.
Travis: Right.
Bob: But it is important that we understand that value we bring to the market which--and by the way,
when we say, and in the story, when Deborah said, "What you have to offer is enough...", and it is, your
true value is enough that should never be confused with not continuing to learn, continuing to improve,
continuing to become a better, more authentic, more effective, excuse me, authentic self.
Travis: I love it. And I think this is something that a lot of people are struggling with Bob. I know in the
very beginning, when I started doing videos and things I was so focused on being perfect, and maybe
even using a tone that wasn't authentic to me.
And so, what was happening is is when I created videos that self-doubt was making it sound like I was
doubting the information that I was given them, and so on the top of it I would put like a question mark,
so I may say, "Next we're going to be talking with Bob Burg?" Well, that inflection made it sound like
I'm not really confident that we're going to be talking with Bob, which is confusing because, now you
said that people's detector and--when someone's not being authentic and super-refined, and I agree
with you on that. And so I come to realize that I've got a talent for caring, and business, and connecting,
and so I need to just realize that I'm not going to say every word perfect, I'm going to make a mistake,
and I have a southern accent so go with it. Just get out of the way, be authentic, and care, and as soon
as I was able to let go of that it was, I was able to get out of my own way and focus on providing value
and for me that's exactly what I hear you saying, and it's a super important lesson for everybody, right?
Bob: Sure, and it's something I had to learn when I first started speaking on stage. I was actually a lot
smoother than I am now and at the same time I used to hear the feedback that I seemed
unapproachable. And anyone who knows me personally knows I'm very approachable, I'm very friendly.
And yet I came across that way because I felt the need to be perfect and not make a mistake, and now
I am much more able to just be myself, to make mistakes, to laugh at myself, and to--and I became a
much better communicator. I may not even be a good speaker as I used to be but I'm a much better
communicator than I was.
Travis: Right. And that's probably why it's so easy for you to be in the pocket, in the zone because
you're just being your authentic self and so you stay true to your cadence. It's easy to get rushed and
get out of your cadence so that's probably part of the magnetism that you have going on there in your
delivery. So excellent job there.
Let me transition you, I don't want to get in the way. We have number 5, the law of receptivity, tell me
about that.

Bob: Yeah, the law of receptivity really just says that--well the actual law itself says the key to effective
giving is to stay open to receiving. This is very important, it ties it all together. Near the end of the story,
as you recall, Joe the protégé was asked by his main man Dor Pindar to breathe out and to hold that
breath until the count of 30. Well Joe tried but in very short time he was struggling, he was gasping for
breath and Pindar said, "What's the matter Joe, can't do it?", and Joe says, "No, I can't just breathe out,
I've got to breathe in as well." And Pindar jokingly said, "Well Joe, what if I was to tell you that it's been
medically-proven that it's actually healthier to breathe out than it is to breathe in." And Joe laughed, he
said, "Well, that's silly. You got to do both, you got to breathe out and breathe in." Well, exactly, that's
very true, we need to do both. We breathe out and we breathe in. We breathe out carbon dioxide, we
breathe in oxygen, we breathe out which is giving, we breathe in which is receiving.
Giving and receiving are simply two sides of the very same coin, and they work best in tandem. To
focus on just one side of the equation while trying to minimize the other--well first of all, it's just an
exercise in futility because every giving is made possible because it's also receiving, and every
receiving is made possible only because it's also a giving. But the other thing too is that you try to do
that, not only are you going to hurt yourself but you're going to shut down the flow because life has a
natural rhythm of giving and receiving just like the wave's going out, the wave's coming in. And what
happens is that somebody can be a great giver of value because, again, we use the term give or giving
in this vernacular, we're talking about the providing of value to others. So someone can be a great
provider of value, and that's wonderful, that's terrific, but it's all for naught if they're not willing to allow
themselves to receive and like measure. And often when this is the case, it's because the person has
an unhealthy relationship with money, and the most insidious part of all is that this unhealthy
relationship with money is on an unconscious level so they don't even know that that's why they're
sabotaging themselves from success.
What we like to say is focus on the giving, again the giving of value, focus on the giving and allow the
receiving, and when you can do that, that's when you're going to find it's holistic and it comes together
and you're able to, not only receive but you're able to continue to add great value to others.
Travis: Right. I'm embarrassed to say that I had a problem with this until the age of 40 years old. So,
mine, I had a successful business for so long that I was used to buying every meal--we could be sitting
at a table of 30 people and I'd buy the meal. And I got to where I felt like I needed to buy everything
which for somehow, someway, along the way of my journey as an entrepreneur, I got to where I wasn't
good at receiving. I couldn't take a compliment; I had a hard time taking a compliment. And I was at an
event and they explained the gravity of what I was doing by not receiving people's act of kindness
people's act of kindness, a gift, maybe even a positive feedback or anything, I was disrespecting what
they were trying to give me by not accepting it. And it hit me like a ton of bricks when I finally realize
what I've been doing, and I think that's an important part of why receptivity is such a critical part of

these laws that you're talking about there. When did you have this level of understanding on this,
receptivity part of things?
Bob: Well, it was surely after I got into sales and I started going on my real personal development
quest. And I read a book, and this is now, probably, 30 years ago, and it's called, and I'm sure you've
heard of it and you've probably read it, it's called Psycho Cybernetics by Dr. Maxwell Maltz, it was
written in 1960.
Travis: My very first book.
Bob: Yeah, and I think he did such a wonderful job of explaining the function of the mind and the brain.
And I realized, when I read that, that was the big "Aha" for me, realizing that the brain is going to allow
you to go, to be, to do, to have exactly what you believe you're supposed to be and do and have. And
these belief systems are unconscious, they are based on everything from a combination of upbringing
environments, schooling, media, news, television, movies, everything, and it's basically how we see life
and what we see as the way things are. Boy, it opened up my mind and that's where I really saw the
challenge I had with receiving. And what he did in the book which I thought was great was after he
showed us the problem, he also showed us how to reprogram our minds to be able to have normally a
better self-image but a whole different belief system of the way life was supposed to be.
Travis: Right.
Bob: Can't say how many times I recommended that book and refer that book, it was such a great
opener. Remember, the messages that we get on money, on wealth, the messages are horrible. The
lack of consciousness in our society, despite the fact that it's free markets are what grew this country,
that made it the powerhouse it became and allowed so many people to live a life that people all over in
third world countries just dream about, we continue to get the message that money is bad, that it's evil,
that wealthy people got wealthy not through providing value to the market place but on the backs of
others, and blah, blah... And, you know, people buy into it, they believe it, there's these subtle
messages in just about everything. And it's not; you know it's not some conspiracy where some mass
thing is trying to--no. It's just natural that people think that way, it's what sells, and that's what's out
there and that's one reason why we need to constantly and consistently choose what we put in our
minds because there's a whole lot of garbage going in there. So we need to be very careful about what
we allow in and we need to be very careful about we choose to put in there.
Travis: I agree with you, I think its stage one of competence, they don't know what they don't know. I
come from a very humble, even poor background, and we just didn't know any better. And so I think a
lot of people--I agree, there's not some big machine turning this out but there's a lot of naiveness and
lack of understanding, that affluence is not synonymous with negativity, or the bad guy or anything else

like that, so I agree with you 100%. Hey, we're getting close on time; I had a couple of quick questions I
wanted to ask you before we segue into the--what I call the lightning round. One term you talk about is
kind of strange and it's the MacGuffin, what is that?
Bob: Well, a MacGuffin is a movie term; it was coined by the late British film director, Albert Hitchcock.
And a MacGuffin can be defined as the object around which the story revolves, and we'll tie that into
sales in a moment. Basically, I'll tell a couple of examples, in the movie classic The Wizard of Oz. The
MacGuffin was Dorothy's quest to get back home to Kansas, that's what the movie revolved around. In
the movie Rocky, the MacGuffin was the 15 round Heavyweight Championship Fight with Apollo Creed.
In the movie Titanic, the MacGuffin was the big, unsinkable ship, but here's the thing, when you get to
the end of the story, you often realize that that thing the story was about, the MacGuffin, really wasn't
what the story was about. In the Wizard of Oz, the story was really about 4 friends who came to
understand that the character traits they thought they most lack actually had the entire time. In the
movie Rocky, the story was about the fight, the struggle was an internal battle, one person who at the
beginning did not recognize his value, and at the end of the story he came to realize that he had a lot of
value to offer. And in the movie Titanic, while the MacGuffin was the big, unsinkable ship that ended up
sinking, that's not what the story was about, it was really about 2 kids from totally opposite sides of the
economic spectrum and they fell in love and how that worked out. Okay here's the point, in the movie,
the MacGuffin is what the story's about but that's not really what the story's about. In sales, your
product, your service is not what the sale is about, what it's about is how it relates, how it benefits the
customer or the client. And that's why the greatest sales people, the most successful, over-the-top,
highest producing sales people understand that when it comes to selling, it isn't about them, and it isn't
even about their product or service, their MacGuffin, it's about the other person and how they will
benefit from that exchange. This is why, and you've often heard the old saw that every year millions
and millions of 1 inch drill bits are sold and yet not one person buying one of their millions and millions
of quarter inch drill bits actually wants a quarter inch drill bit, what you want is a quarter inch hole.
Travis: Right.
Bob: The drill bit is simply the MacGuffin. Now, does it have to be a good MacGuffin? Of course. Does
it need a bit to work? Absolutely. Does it need to be guaranteed? Of course it does, but it's not what it's
about, and that's what‟s still key, and that's why understanding that the MacGuffin is not what the sale
is about is often the difference between whether that sale takes place or not.
Travis: Brilliant. I think that's a great way to put a handle on the bigger picture of things, right?
Bob: Oh absolutely, that it's always about the other person and that's where the focus needs to be.

Travis: Excellent. Hey Bob, we're getting close on time, let's segue into the lightning round, are you
ready?
Bob: I sure am!
Travis: Alright. What book or program made an impact on you related to business that you'd
recommend and why?
Bob: Oh my gosh, I would go back to books, and beside from books like Psycho Cybernetics, I think
there are certain books that pretty much everyone who's really serious about a successful business and
a successful life should have in their bookshelf and read again, and again, and again. They include
How to Win Friends and Influence People by Carnegie, Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, The
Science of Getting Rich by Wallace Steve Wattles; The Magic of Thinking Big by Dr. David Schwartz;
Peace, Power, and Plenty by Orison SwettMarden; As a Man Thinketh by James Allen and others that
just make such a huge difference in your mind and building up yourself which makes you--helps you
become successful on the inside, which then manifest on the outside.
Travis: Excellent advice, thank you. What's one of your favorite tools or pieces of technology that
you've recently discovered, if any, that you'd recommend to other business owner?
Bob: Huh, wow. You know I really cannot think of anything when it comes to technology, I'm really not
very technically oriented, and I tend by the way to be a very early adopter.
Travis: Well, you don't have to always be the one that is doing the adopting as long as you've got a
team of great people with you, right?
Bob: And I have, absolutely. Yup.
Travis: Yeah. What's a famous quote that would best summarize your belief for attitude in business?
Bob: Well, as far as famous quote, there are many quotes from many people that I just think embodies
business success. Zig Ziglar, when he said “You can have everything in life, you want, if you'll just help
enough other people get what they want.” I think that's just so beautifully summarized everything great
about life, everything great about business, everything great about free markets.
Travis: Yeah. I agree with you, love the quote too. How do people connect with you, what's the best
way for them to find you and connect with you?
Bob: They can visit Burg.com, and that's B-U-R-G.com and while they're there, if they like they can
download Chapter 1 of the Go-Giver. They can go to my blog where I have about 400 archived articles,
videos, interviews and lots of good stuff, and they can connect with me on social media, right through

that page. So we welcome everyone to come to Burg.com, B-U-R-G.com and hangout for a while and
have some fun.
Travis: Cool, are you on Twitter?
Bob: I am, yup, @BobBurg.
Travis: Any other social media links that I can get from you later if you don't mind or whatever you want
to share what I'll do is I'll post them on the show here. Can you hangout for a couple more minutes?
Bob: Absolutely.
Travis: You are brilliant my friend. I'm super-excited that I've connected with you, I was referred to you
by someone that is a very passionate, wonderful person, and he told me how wonderful you were. I
already was conditioned to know, like, trust you by your books like I told you. But I'll tell you, you are a
gem my friend and I want to stay connected with you and support you anyway I can.
Bob: Well, I appreciate that, likewise, you're a great guy and I appreciate all the great value, you're
providing so many.
End of Interview
Travis: Yeah, thank you. So let me hangout for just one more minute and let me wrap up this, I have a
couple of things that I want to share with you guys like I talked about. So I want remind you that in the
show notes I'm going to put all of Bob's links right about under his bio, kind of a brief explanation of who
he is and some of his accomplishments, and then all of the links and resources that we talked about. As
you know, I'll put under there and that way you can go direct to them. Now I want to remind you to go to
DIYOB.com, which is short for Diamonds in Your Own Backyard, so DIYOB.com, and enter your name
and we'll send you the 2013 business owner's guide. It's a From Frustration to $70 million, a behind the
scene look at what you need to know to grow your business to incredible levels of success and it really
doesn't matter what level you want to grow that business to, everything is relevant, it's a lot of topics
that aren't being discussed today and I'm not really sure why. Also when you opt-in you'll become a
member of the Authentic Entrepreneur Nation which is really a network of people, tools, and resources
that you can refer to that you can trust to grow your business. This is basically Sandra and myself, it's
our private roll-o-decks that we use and recommend, and we'll give you access to that as soon as it
goes live.

In the next episode I'm going to connect you with Sean Patrick McCullough, his company has provided
2.7 billion in services through his network, he has some incredible levels of success. Part of his
success and what we'll be talking about applies to, really each and every business owner. I don't want
to go too deep into it because I didn't want to spoil it for you. So I want to close the show today with a
favorite author and someone that Bob actually recommended which is Napoleon Hill who wrote Think
and Grow Rich, and the quote reads, "It is literally true that you can succeed best and quickest by
helping others to succeed."
This is Travis Lane Jenkins signing off for now, to your success may you continue to inspire those
around you to go after their dreams to. Talk to you in the next episode. Take care.

How We Can Help You
We know that finding someone that you can trust online today is hard and that so many “so called
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As the 'Business Owner' it‟s difficult to see the big picture of your own business because you‟re in the
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And you are too emotionally involved to completely impartial.
This is a common problem for EVERY business owner. It doesn‟t matter if you are a one-man army, or
an army of 150, the problem is still the same.
Travis Lane Jenkins
Business Mentor-Turn Around Specialist
Radio Host of The Entrepreneurs Radio Show
“Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs That Grow Your Business"

The Entrepreneurs Radio Show 035 Bob Burg

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The Entrepreneurs Radio Show 035 Bob Burg